Thai AB Sellers Using Bait & Switch Tactics- Watch Yourself especially forChonburiman
- Thread starter BastardFish
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Yeah not saying all his stuff will end badly, glad you got your item, and yeah about the female he knew. They especially him check all their females and males at like 2'', ever notice how every one of his video's be it of a female or male have a parrot fish in it with them? Yeah that's them checking right there. So most of what's bought does not have much chance to reproduce. However some fish take time and or don't attach to the first intro of the parrot fish, so every now and then we in the States get lucky and one they already checked turns out to be a breeder. This is one reason I try not to buy fish from him unless it was a simply don't care have to have and take my chances situation which was the case here. A lot of guys don't care or don't take the time to check this out but Chon checks them all.
I actually disagree with this about the fertility issue. F2 Kamfas MOSTLY are going to be infertile. That's just it, period. MOST of the kamfas they sell are going to be F2 and therefore infertile. Getting females as males and males as females is a whole different issue lol. You can see with SRD and other strains they tend to be more on the fertile side. It's just not advertised. If you want something to be fertile go ahead and pay the price tag that comes along with it. Don't buy a fish and just expect it to be fertile if it's a kamfa.
If its the same guy I'm thinking he post a lot of really nice stuff on FB also. I've inquired about a couple of them. The last 1 was real nice. Messageg him for a price, he replied.. I thought about it for about 30 minutes & decided to get it but when I messages him back price was 40.00 more lol. I see some really nice FH advertised for move there.. Just makes me nervous having them shipped so far. I have horrible luck.
What is it your disagreeing with again because you lost me? F2 means nothing really man, all you saying their is whatever his mixed pair of Kamfa parents were F2 would be their offspring. The Parents too would have been hybrids and buy the way F0, F1 and F2 don't really apply to hybrids this is a term for species which came at some point form the wild not hybrids. So the offspring of an we will say for sake of talking (F2 Hybrid) would still carry right around the same chance as their parents of either being fertile or in fertile. You are right the ZZ strain carries more probability of a fertile offspring then most Kamfa, but just because a batch is 2nd or even 3rd generation does not mean they will not be able to bear young. The Thai guys know this why else would they been checking them all with parrot fish? It's not for the companionship of the fish. It's done purposefully to one see if the fish has any interest in the opposite sex (as some do not) this tells you right off the bat your not dealing with a fish who carries the drive to be reproductive (something all native pure blood fish and creatures have within them) and something which can be dubbed down or numbed from crossbreeding over time. Further more if one shows the interest they know the parrot will cause minimal if any damage to the fish and will lay eggs so then the FH can be checked for fertility. If the breeders are still checking F2 & F3 as you call it, and are not concerned about it being an issue why then would you or I? I have to disagree the generation is not a determining factor, your going to get infertile fish and fertile fish out of any batch. How many of each now that's the kicker you can never tell.
However this debate could go on and on and kind of off subject
LOL 1. You need to calm down. 2. The parrot fish isn't to test the sex. It's just unintelligent to think that they don't know the sex of the fish in the vid that they're using to SELL the fish. 
Trust me these guys are either smarter than you or I or they had someone that was smarter teach them. The parrot is used to make the males more active, puff up, and swim nicer. Think about it, have you ever seen a female FH vid where there's a BP in it? Please think before you speak.
Remember that I'm not trying to discredit you but if you blurt something out that isn't true unfortunately I'm going to call you out on it. I realize what an F# is. In pure cichlids it's used to count how many generations away from wild. In ornamental hybrids it's used differently. Again, what is considered an F1 in FH? I'm gonna go ahead and guess it means it's the first offspring from 2 unrelated parents. Who knows how many times they're inbred and outbred to get the way they are. I'm sure you know exactly what's going on in the gene pool to figure out the fertility rate in Kamfa. That's why so many of us American hobbyists have cracked the code and started creating our own lines of Kamfa to be proud about. Bro according to your theory why are ZZ more fertile than Kamfa? Also 2 Kamfa's don't make those fish you see on Aquabid, FB, or anywhere else.
Trust me these guys are either smarter than you or I or they had someone that was smarter teach them. The parrot is used to make the males more active, puff up, and swim nicer. Think about it, have you ever seen a female FH vid where there's a BP in it? Please think before you speak.Remember that I'm not trying to discredit you but if you blurt something out that isn't true unfortunately I'm going to call you out on it. I realize what an F# is. In pure cichlids it's used to count how many generations away from wild. In ornamental hybrids it's used differently. Again, what is considered an F1 in FH? I'm gonna go ahead and guess it means it's the first offspring from 2 unrelated parents. Who knows how many times they're inbred and outbred to get the way they are. I'm sure you know exactly what's going on in the gene pool to figure out the fertility rate in Kamfa. That's why so many of us American hobbyists have cracked the code and started creating our own lines of Kamfa to be proud about. Bro according to your theory why are ZZ more fertile than Kamfa? Also 2 Kamfa's don't make those fish you see on Aquabid, FB, or anywhere else.
No direct experience, but I have also heard many kamfas f2 are infertile. I have had many and tested against fertile parrot, and no success. If you have issues with Chon, post on facebook (facebook flowerhorn hobbyist) group. He pushes many fish on that facebook group page and there is also 7000 members, so I doubt he wants to look bad in front of many potential customers.
1st off check my post bra, before you get rude for no reason. I was very calm in my response apparently you have an issue with someone making an argument on a subject you clearly are not as schooled on as you made claim to be and started! Why I am not sure as we were talking on a subject you brought up. Your comments on parrots not being used for the checking of fertility is the only unintelligent statement made thus far. I never said they use them to check the sex (this can be done by a vent test or just the visual shape of a fish especially when you have a trained eye like the Thai seller do). I said they are using them to check the fertility of the fish and even gave supporting reasoning why if you take the time to read it. They may obviously know the sex of a fish, I was talking about them checking if said fish is worth a crap breeding wise or not. Your reason for why you think they have parrot fish in the tanks is umm a rookie response and understood. Hard to believe from a person who claims to be so versed in hybrid fish. You can get all the (active, puff up, and nicer swim) as you stated by simply putting a mirror next to the fish. I will add many of the sellers do. So why then the need for a fish to enter into a tank when you could just use a mirror? The answer is again they are easy to get to take and bond with FH much more so then female FH, and again cause much less if any damage to the fish the seller wishes to sell. Female FH can get nasty and cause damage to the fish they wish to sell and are of higher values in most cases then a parrot. All around it’s just much easier to check fertility, cause little to no damage to the FH vs. using a FH female, and they are much more cost effective (cheaper) then using a FH female. So please think though before you speak..Not trying to discredit you either, however I feel the same, and if you want to get uppity on a subject you brought up, or to light (which is off topic second time I told you this) then unfortunately I’m going to call you out on it as well.
Also I am not going to even acknowledge the second portion of your last post-as it’s just way out there. I never made claim to know the fertility rate of Kamfa nor the exact mixture or line breeding process in which they undergo (no one in the States knows this for sure and everyone knows that secret is lock and key for good reason). I will say I agreed WITH YOU after you made the statement ZZ carried a higher fertility rate.
So before you ask me why I think this to be true, why don’t you go ahead and explain yourself and your statement why you believe it to be true as well? You seem to think there is no way to breed two (second generation) Kamfa and produce offspring. I have to disagree with you on this and that’s where it stays not a big deal. Two people two different opinions.
I also do not fully agree with your statement about the results form breeding two Kamfa (however this must be a result of the fact you do not believe they can even breed). Do I think if one got two nice quality Kamfa to breed, would they produce like fish as what is being sold on FB, AB or any place else? The answer is no not the same quality across the board, but yes I do believe if you are breeding two good quality and you have success you will get a certain comparable percentage off spring to the parents you used. Now of them how many would be of resale like quality, that in my opinion would differ greatly on what was used to breed, and the numbers would be on the lower end of the percentage of the overall batch of fry. This however is the case no matter what type of FH you breed, Red Dragon ZZ, Kamalau, or Kamfa. The Asian seller go through this same process it’s called Kulling if you did not already know. You kill off all which are not up to par and grow out what is up to par left in your batch of fish. The advantage the guys across sea’s have is-One they have the breeding codes obviously, but two they have an over abundance of good quality fish to use when breeding and breed on such a large scale so often they kull thousands of fish only keeping the very best. You compare that you an You compare that you an average U.S. breeder who has one to two batches of fry going and has to make his or her kull selections from this limited fish based resource, and you have an equation which will not likely be equaled any time soon if ever, and the reason why most do not have the means to ever compete with Asian sellers. Not much reason to try, one can only hope to get that decent percentage of fish not needed to be kulled when breeding.
I am sure you will have more to add but remember we are a bit off topic here now and people can agree to disagree it happens.
Also I am not going to even acknowledge the second portion of your last post-as it’s just way out there. I never made claim to know the fertility rate of Kamfa nor the exact mixture or line breeding process in which they undergo (no one in the States knows this for sure and everyone knows that secret is lock and key for good reason). I will say I agreed WITH YOU after you made the statement ZZ carried a higher fertility rate.
So before you ask me why I think this to be true, why don’t you go ahead and explain yourself and your statement why you believe it to be true as well? You seem to think there is no way to breed two (second generation) Kamfa and produce offspring. I have to disagree with you on this and that’s where it stays not a big deal. Two people two different opinions.
I also do not fully agree with your statement about the results form breeding two Kamfa (however this must be a result of the fact you do not believe they can even breed). Do I think if one got two nice quality Kamfa to breed, would they produce like fish as what is being sold on FB, AB or any place else? The answer is no not the same quality across the board, but yes I do believe if you are breeding two good quality and you have success you will get a certain comparable percentage off spring to the parents you used. Now of them how many would be of resale like quality, that in my opinion would differ greatly on what was used to breed, and the numbers would be on the lower end of the percentage of the overall batch of fry. This however is the case no matter what type of FH you breed, Red Dragon ZZ, Kamalau, or Kamfa. The Asian seller go through this same process it’s called Kulling if you did not already know. You kill off all which are not up to par and grow out what is up to par left in your batch of fish. The advantage the guys across sea’s have is-One they have the breeding codes obviously, but two they have an over abundance of good quality fish to use when breeding and breed on such a large scale so often they kull thousands of fish only keeping the very best. You compare that you an You compare that you an average U.S. breeder who has one to two batches of fry going and has to make his or her kull selections from this limited fish based resource, and you have an equation which will not likely be equaled any time soon if ever, and the reason why most do not have the means to ever compete with Asian sellers. Not much reason to try, one can only hope to get that decent percentage of fish not needed to be kulled when breeding.
I am sure you will have more to add but remember we are a bit off topic here now and people can agree to disagree it happens.
LOL I tried REALLY hard to get through that whole paragraph without dozing off. I think you should think about what you want to say before you type it. I'll explain it in a more detailed manner this time. The parrot fish IN THE VID isn't used to test anything. They may or may not using a parrot to test fertility but it's not gonna be the same vid we see. In KAMFA fertility is usually checked when they're MUCH larger than what we tend to purchase. In the vid's you and I see the parrot is used to make the male fish display which makes them nicer to look at. Thus showing a better point of purchase.
Anyway you can think what you like. You win lol. I must be incorrect. Again I say I'm not upset. Just telling you that you're incorrect and apparently you got mad "Brah." Hope you get your situation figured out but to be honest with you I could order a fish from Chon and get THAT fish in 2 weeks (because my transshipper already received her last shipment for the month yesterday). I must be the one that's mis-informed (he's definitely getting a little over-zealous with the red lights though). I think all scams, be it for fish, for credit cards, for bank accounts, for identity theft, etc. Are all meant to draw in 1 type of person.....................
P.S. It's Culling not Kulling (I must not know what that means either).
Anyway you can think what you like. You win lol. I must be incorrect. Again I say I'm not upset. Just telling you that you're incorrect and apparently you got mad "Brah." Hope you get your situation figured out but to be honest with you I could order a fish from Chon and get THAT fish in 2 weeks (because my transshipper already received her last shipment for the month yesterday). I must be the one that's mis-informed (he's definitely getting a little over-zealous with the red lights though). I think all scams, be it for fish, for credit cards, for bank accounts, for identity theft, etc. Are all meant to draw in 1 type of person.....................
P.S. It's Culling not Kulling (I must not know what that means either).
We can use parrots in both ways, to allow the male to be dominant and to check our Males fertility.
OP:
You learn from expirence and experience is gained by actually doing the whatever it is your doing lol
A reliable person i've done business with in the past is Julie from Aquacraze.
Excellent customer service aswell.
You get what you see. That's the thing I love about this store.Just know that the fish, more often then not are photographed at their best.
I'm sure you all know how hard it is to make a flowerhorn feel comfortable. Maybe good water?
Sent from my SGH-T999 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
OP:
You learn from expirence and experience is gained by actually doing the whatever it is your doing lol
A reliable person i've done business with in the past is Julie from Aquacraze.
Excellent customer service aswell.
You get what you see. That's the thing I love about this store.Just know that the fish, more often then not are photographed at their best.
I'm sure you all know how hard it is to make a flowerhorn feel comfortable. Maybe good water?
Sent from my SGH-T999 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
