Sorry to hear that DB. In more a less similar issue but in a smaller scale. My prized female marble is having some issue with appetite.. dosed with jungle internal parasite . so far still very thin, hole in the head at one stage, with pubic bone still clearly visible. at the moment only shows intrest to earth worm. Hang on buddy... that is all i can say from this part of the world.
The beginning of the end? Raykeepers nightmare.
- Thread starter DB junkie
- Start date
I'm hangin.
Looking for a new hobby though. I can't keep doing this year after year. It doesn't matter how well you care for stuff, how much planning, how much maintianance, how many tanks, how much food. It's all irrelevant. They die. Might go a year, hell this time I made it almost 2. I redid what I thought were weak points in my systems everytime I went through this.
The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze anymore.
I lost an irreplacable ray this time and even if I wanted to keep going the girlfriend isn't gonna allow it. That was her ray. Favorite of all the rays I've had. She couldn't even be in the house last night.
Really wish it was one of the blackies. Could replace those. Can't replace one of the nicest Marbles I've ever seen
Looking for a new hobby though. I can't keep doing this year after year. It doesn't matter how well you care for stuff, how much planning, how much maintianance, how many tanks, how much food. It's all irrelevant. They die. Might go a year, hell this time I made it almost 2. I redid what I thought were weak points in my systems everytime I went through this.
The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze anymore.
I lost an irreplacable ray this time and even if I wanted to keep going the girlfriend isn't gonna allow it. That was her ray. Favorite of all the rays I've had. She couldn't even be in the house last night.
Really wish it was one of the blackies. Could replace those. Can't replace one of the nicest Marbles I've ever seen
Al ,i would hate to see you out of the hobby,even tho im not on here much anymore you are one of the good guys on this site.It will turn around and it will get better,but unfortunetly it will run its course too.Whether its bacterial or fungal.Not much help but if you decide to stay,even tho you cant replace marbles that big,you cna get all you want at cost from me,and that female sitting here dotn worry once your system is better ,dont worry about the difference its on me,she's paid off as far as im concerned.Take care ,it will get better.
any signs to wht the problem might be yet? i hate that this is so hard to diagnose
ask LJ where he took his aro when it needed surgery, not sure if he had to pay or not... maybe they would be interested in taking a look for educational purposes
ask LJ where he took his aro when it needed surgery, not sure if he had to pay or not... maybe they would be interested in taking a look for educational purposes
That surgery cost him a grip. Just shy of $400 if I remember correctly.
The ray I just lost was a little "off". This is why my girlfriend took to it the way she did. She thought it was just the most amazing thing in the world that the ray would skim the surface upside down. Made me freak out. Thought there was something wrong with her for litterally the first 4 months I had her. She was imported then sold right away. She wouldn't eat for I think it was a week or better. The importer nursed her back to health and returned her to the original buyer. A few months later I ended up with her. It got to the point where she would not eat for a day, sometimes 3, then start back to everyday. Never did get the wide base at the hips that all my others have. She was ecentric I guess you could say. However there wasn't a dang thing wrong with the lil male I bred that died last week.
In all reality I may have killed her with meds but at least I tried. I have watched too many rays suffer for weeks at a time. Never had one refuse food over a week and turn around and come back. I would have rather put her down then watch her waste away. I tried the no meds bit after the first ray died and it got me nowhere. Didn't want to watch the other 2 end up wasting away like the female did. At least this way IF they both end up dying I know it wasn't from what I think it is.
I did not medicate the 750 and likely won't till I know the outcome of the 2 that are still alive in the medicated tank.
As far as having the ray/s examined..... I can't fund it. BUT what IF someone with rays dying of similar symptoms DID pay the piper and got a university or 2 to give them a C.O.D.? Maybe that university discovered that this crap is immune to normal meds. Maybe someone did find a cure to that crap. Maybe that person contacted me already.
Call the medicating a "shotgun approach" if you want to, as I do not know what is killing my rays. BUT it was recommended by this person that did pay the piper. At this point seriously what do I have to loose? Seems pointless to hope a miracle happens and all this goes away. IF it did I would expect it to come back again in a year or 2, and would likely come back stronger. The paranoya alone would take any fun out of it. I have been sitting here caring for brown rays for 3+ years now BECAUSE I keep having bouts with rays dying and am usually unable to stop it, only stand up afterwards and HOPE it doesn't happen again. I bought into the whole crap water thing big time. This is why my tanks get so much water pushed through them, this is why I have several lbs or gallons of bio PER ray. Who the hell can use 15,000 gallons of water a month and still has "bad" water? To know whole heartedly that by mearly keeping rays that your entire collection is subject to culling at any given time is enough of a wakeup call for me to question a lot of things. IF there is a disease out there like I think there is and I have a chance to possibly beat it it would answewr enough questions for me to consider this shotgunning justifiable.
I do appreciate the kind words guys. I'm sure you can understand my frustration at this point though. It's definetly too early to call it quits as there's still a whole bunch of rays here that need to be in the clear or in the freezer before any decisions about hobby involvement come into play. Rays are definetly a love/hate relationship and I'm just stuck in the hate section right now.
Sorry to read this, losing fish always sucks - especially when you have no idea what killed them.
You might try calling a university in the area. Sometimes they are willing to do studies, a biopsy, necropsy, etc. for educational purposes for little or no cost. Similar to the beauty schools that do spa treatments, etc. for 1/4 the normal cost....
Not that this is really going to help you now, but as far as the dormant theory goes - I think that is a real possibility. I am a believer that clown loaches (any wild caught species really) naturally carries parasites, etc. that it has picked up in the wild and those stay dormant until the fish's immune system is weakened. Then the parasite/infection/whatever is able to take hold and start destroying the fish, eventually bringing on secondary infections and resulting in death. These parasites, etc. can also be passed on to other tankmates, so even a tank-bred specimen can become infected if it has had contact with a carrier.
This theory does explain (again, example
why clown loaches can seem perfectly healthy in an aquarium and then succumb to "skinny disease", even if no new inhabitants were introduced. Also would explain why the new imports are more prone to have it, stress of being shipped, poor water quality, etc - some pull out of it and get purchased at the LFS, only to succumb later on in a healthy tank if immune system is weakened....
Prazi only treats certain kinds of internal parasites, and a UV sterilizer wouldn't help with them at all since they do not reside in the water column (I know you know this, just stating) - so the use of another medication (as previously stated) such as Levamisole, Metronidazole, etc. could be helpful. Followed with a broad spectrum antibiotic for secondary infections such as Maracyn I & II. I have never kept rays, so how this medication would affect them, if it is even safe to use with them, I have no clue. Just trying to help, adding to the list of possible causes/treatments.
I am truly sorry for your losses.
You might try calling a university in the area. Sometimes they are willing to do studies, a biopsy, necropsy, etc. for educational purposes for little or no cost. Similar to the beauty schools that do spa treatments, etc. for 1/4 the normal cost....
Not that this is really going to help you now, but as far as the dormant theory goes - I think that is a real possibility. I am a believer that clown loaches (any wild caught species really) naturally carries parasites, etc. that it has picked up in the wild and those stay dormant until the fish's immune system is weakened. Then the parasite/infection/whatever is able to take hold and start destroying the fish, eventually bringing on secondary infections and resulting in death. These parasites, etc. can also be passed on to other tankmates, so even a tank-bred specimen can become infected if it has had contact with a carrier.
This theory does explain (again, example
why clown loaches can seem perfectly healthy in an aquarium and then succumb to "skinny disease", even if no new inhabitants were introduced. Also would explain why the new imports are more prone to have it, stress of being shipped, poor water quality, etc - some pull out of it and get purchased at the LFS, only to succumb later on in a healthy tank if immune system is weakened....Prazi only treats certain kinds of internal parasites, and a UV sterilizer wouldn't help with them at all since they do not reside in the water column (I know you know this, just stating) - so the use of another medication (as previously stated) such as Levamisole, Metronidazole, etc. could be helpful. Followed with a broad spectrum antibiotic for secondary infections such as Maracyn I & II. I have never kept rays, so how this medication would affect them, if it is even safe to use with them, I have no clue. Just trying to help, adding to the list of possible causes/treatments.
I am truly sorry for your losses.
Really sorry to hear man, I have only briefly experienced a sick ray, ( many years ago I bought and promptly killed a Retic because I didn't know any better ) But I hope to never experience it again even though I know that is impossible. I am sure there is an answer out there and I hope you find it because I think it would bring you great piece of mind to at least know why.
Once again, sorry for your loss man
Once again, sorry for your loss man
if its not too late and you have tried everything else then why not flush the meds out of the system and add the filter aid that puts the natural bacteria back in the water. it seems that your problems started when the bio load was changed in the system and ive had similar eperience of fish not eating after a new large fish was introduced. might take them a few days to come round but it could be worth a try. doesnt sound like all the meds are helping anyhow.
