Here in India they've banned corals completely , you just get a few anemone species. Some people do have corals but they've been illegally traded or brought in.
The dark hobby
- Thread starter Niki_up
- Start date
Hello; It has been decades ago that reef fish were exposed to a chemical which stunned them. The fish would float about to be collected and later sold. I imagine some were still stunned in hiding places in the coral. Later on the fish recovered, or so it seemed.
Best i can recall the chemical caused long term problems and the fish did later get ill. I thought the chemical is no longer used but do not know.
I have been trying to keep only tank raised fish for a few decades now. Fresh water only of course.
Been a number of threads and posts about how cruel or some other terms the hobby is. Part of the hobby. Best to understand a lot of fish die and are treated poorly for us to have this hobby. I may not personally mistreat fish but that I plunk money down keeps the practices going. I will no longer help or encourage new people to get into the hobby. Too many times over 5+ decades has it turned out very badly so I discourage new folks any more.
Turns out I can live with the notion of tank raised fish even tho there is some level of poor conditions in that as well. But I do not want to help pay for wild caught species being gathered any more.
Best i can recall the chemical caused long term problems and the fish did later get ill. I thought the chemical is no longer used but do not know.
I have been trying to keep only tank raised fish for a few decades now. Fresh water only of course.
Been a number of threads and posts about how cruel or some other terms the hobby is. Part of the hobby. Best to understand a lot of fish die and are treated poorly for us to have this hobby. I may not personally mistreat fish but that I plunk money down keeps the practices going. I will no longer help or encourage new people to get into the hobby. Too many times over 5+ decades has it turned out very badly so I discourage new folks any more.
Turns out I can live with the notion of tank raised fish even tho there is some level of poor conditions in that as well. But I do not want to help pay for wild caught species being gathered any more.
Thanks for the heads-up on this,
Niki_up
. I want to find this and watch it; I think it might open the eyes of many newer aquarists and hopefully get them to actually think about their fish as living creatures rather than mere moving ornaments. I agree with you that a total ban isn't going to be a helpful step, but unfortunately that is the type of knee-jerk over-reaction that is typical of today's enviro-crusaders.
I remember reading about the use of cyanide for marine fish collecting...I believe that is the chemical to which S skjl47 is referring...and being horrified by it. That was several decades ago; is that stuff still being used today? Or have they switched to other harmful methods of collecting?
I know I'm a hypocrite; I much prefer to buy tank-raised fish to minimize the impact on the environment...and yet I still find myself occasionally being tempted by a wild-caught specialty here and there, usually something that is rarely or never bred in captivity. But even here we find apparent contradictions. There was an interesting thread on MFK in which somebody made a well-reasoned and intelligently-presented argument for the idea that some fish species are and can be collected from the wild without major impacts on the wild population...and that this created local jobs and an economy that then had a vested interest in protecting and managing those wild populations. I certainly believe that a sustainable harvest of a wild population is absolutely possible, and might have those benefits...but I also think that a system like that needs only one bad example of human greed to cause major damage that is very slow to correct, if it can be corrected at all.
A total ban on the ownership or collecting of a particular animal species, or animals in general, may sound like a good idea to some folks...usually the type of people who just "know" they are morally superior to everyone else, and feel that it is their duty to let you know it too. They are so busy trying to make everyone else as bitter and miserable as they are that they won't even consider the positive effects of animal ownership. Making the next generation...or any generation...actually care about animals will not work if you completely remove them from any contact with those animals. As long as people have the opportunity to interact with and experience animals, there is a chance that at least some of them will become passionate enough to think about the well-being of the natural world. But to suggest that just watching videos on YouTube, or even visiting a zoo, will elicit that same level of passion is simply...IMHO...a pipe dream.
Unfortunately, the "we're not happy till you're not happy" crowd tends to be very vocal and strident, and we all know that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Niki_up
. I want to find this and watch it; I think it might open the eyes of many newer aquarists and hopefully get them to actually think about their fish as living creatures rather than mere moving ornaments. I agree with you that a total ban isn't going to be a helpful step, but unfortunately that is the type of knee-jerk over-reaction that is typical of today's enviro-crusaders.I remember reading about the use of cyanide for marine fish collecting...I believe that is the chemical to which S skjl47 is referring...and being horrified by it. That was several decades ago; is that stuff still being used today? Or have they switched to other harmful methods of collecting?
I know I'm a hypocrite; I much prefer to buy tank-raised fish to minimize the impact on the environment...and yet I still find myself occasionally being tempted by a wild-caught specialty here and there, usually something that is rarely or never bred in captivity. But even here we find apparent contradictions. There was an interesting thread on MFK in which somebody made a well-reasoned and intelligently-presented argument for the idea that some fish species are and can be collected from the wild without major impacts on the wild population...and that this created local jobs and an economy that then had a vested interest in protecting and managing those wild populations. I certainly believe that a sustainable harvest of a wild population is absolutely possible, and might have those benefits...but I also think that a system like that needs only one bad example of human greed to cause major damage that is very slow to correct, if it can be corrected at all.
A total ban on the ownership or collecting of a particular animal species, or animals in general, may sound like a good idea to some folks...usually the type of people who just "know" they are morally superior to everyone else, and feel that it is their duty to let you know it too. They are so busy trying to make everyone else as bitter and miserable as they are that they won't even consider the positive effects of animal ownership. Making the next generation...or any generation...actually care about animals will not work if you completely remove them from any contact with those animals. As long as people have the opportunity to interact with and experience animals, there is a chance that at least some of them will become passionate enough to think about the well-being of the natural world. But to suggest that just watching videos on YouTube, or even visiting a zoo, will elicit that same level of passion is simply...IMHO...a pipe dream.
Unfortunately, the "we're not happy till you're not happy" crowd tends to be very vocal and strident, and we all know that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
I posted the following a couple weeks back in the "Lost Cause" thread.
And yes, cyanide is still being used.....
And yes, cyanide is still being used.....
Agree that it is a very sad side of the hobby. I try to only keep aquacultures marine fish, knowing how bad the collection is for the fish and for the environment as well. I have caved a few times though and bought some wild collected marine fish. Will take a look at this documentary thanks for the heads up.
Haven't watched and don't plan on it ,but I have heard a bit about it and alot of there facts and figures are sketchy.
I do know the aquarium industry takes out 0.000080% of what the food industry does. Or 7000 tons per year compared to 87 million tons of which 35 million tons is by catch and thrown back dead. 7 million sea horses are caught by accident, 1 million for " medicine " , 4000 for the aquarium hobby.
A dead aquarium fish isn't worth anything, so collectors, wholesalers have a financial interest in keeping them alive.
Small communitys learn there is a financial benefit of keeping there reefs healthy, have a alternative source of income to just food fishing. Reef tanks generate tourism to wild reefs, again making them financially worth keeping.
Real live rock isn't readily sold now days, most is mined on land, most corals are aquacultured on land or in sea farms, not taken from the reefs.
More and more fish species are being captive bred.
I don't know if our hobby is good or bad for the reefs as a whole all things considered, but compared to alot of the issues and threats they face we really are small fry.
I do know the aquarium industry takes out 0.000080% of what the food industry does. Or 7000 tons per year compared to 87 million tons of which 35 million tons is by catch and thrown back dead. 7 million sea horses are caught by accident, 1 million for " medicine " , 4000 for the aquarium hobby.
A dead aquarium fish isn't worth anything, so collectors, wholesalers have a financial interest in keeping them alive.
Small communitys learn there is a financial benefit of keeping there reefs healthy, have a alternative source of income to just food fishing. Reef tanks generate tourism to wild reefs, again making them financially worth keeping.
Real live rock isn't readily sold now days, most is mined on land, most corals are aquacultured on land or in sea farms, not taken from the reefs.
More and more fish species are being captive bred.
I don't know if our hobby is good or bad for the reefs as a whole all things considered, but compared to alot of the issues and threats they face we really are small fry.
Hello; Sorry I do not buy the small stuff reasoning. Likely a difference in hobby species and food fish. I will still stay away from wild caught even if the impact is small. Also depend on the definition of small.
Don't quite know how many agree with me, but imo I consider even eating a wild caught fish unethical nowadays.
Like why eat tuna if you know that we've significantly reduced their populations.
I consider that anything that people eat should be farmed, be it beef, chicken, sheep, goat, fish etc.
Don't know about other countries but in India most people eat freshwater fish that are reared in makeshift ponds or biofloc farming, even shrimps.
Because they've messed up the wild populations in the rivers or the rivers are so polluted that no fish lives in there.
The coastal areas eat saltwater fish, which is wildcaught and I strongly believe that the govt should regulate it cause they eat or export to China anything that they catch - sharks (I've even seen hammer heads ), Napoleon fish, stingrays , many endangered species (fishermen don't even know that such species are endangered) .
In earlier times people ate everything wildcaught but still the wild populations were healthy and survived.
It's in the recent times that the wild populations are simply being exploited to such an extent that they are disappearing.
I think education and strict regulation is what is required for the benefit of all.
Like why eat tuna if you know that we've significantly reduced their populations.
I consider that anything that people eat should be farmed, be it beef, chicken, sheep, goat, fish etc.
Don't know about other countries but in India most people eat freshwater fish that are reared in makeshift ponds or biofloc farming, even shrimps.
Because they've messed up the wild populations in the rivers or the rivers are so polluted that no fish lives in there.
The coastal areas eat saltwater fish, which is wildcaught and I strongly believe that the govt should regulate it cause they eat or export to China anything that they catch - sharks (I've even seen hammer heads ), Napoleon fish, stingrays , many endangered species (fishermen don't even know that such species are endangered) .
In earlier times people ate everything wildcaught but still the wild populations were healthy and survived.
It's in the recent times that the wild populations are simply being exploited to such an extent that they are disappearing.
I think education and strict regulation is what is required for the benefit of all.
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I wouldn't presume to tell someone else how to feel about all of this. I decided not to do marine fish for personal ethical reasons a long time ago, though as I understand it some marine fish are now captive bred. When it comes to freshwater fish, it's not so simple as some may think. As in the video below, there is often more than one side to it.
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