The Evil Malaysian Trumpet Snail of Death

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Hmm, I'm not sure the MTS are to blame. I've thousands in my 180 with no issue and several benefits.
Many moons ago I had/caused two die offs from water changes, for different reasons.

From a neglected (2+ months w/o a water change) tank that had far different water parameters than the tap water I was adding, with a large water change. I felt awful.
Another time, I changed water shortly after a heavy rain fall, which my city increases the chloramine concentration to combat. I believe I had 1.5-2pmm of untreated chloramines that did in a number of fish, and caused a mini cycle. I now test TDS readings in my tank vs tap, and if I suspect increased chloramines from the cities published average I do a test, and increase prime to needed dosage.
 
Hey folks--

Wanted to give you an update like I said I would. I lowered the amount of food I feed my fish (now they go crazy when I walk in the room like the fish at the LFS, but oh well), and I also stopped putting algae pellets in the water. The 6 assassin snails seem to be doing their job too.

I did a small water add and just put a little bit of the fresh water with my regular chems in at a time, watched the fish to make sure they weren't having trouble, and then did that several times until the bucket was empty.

For the next water change cycle , I took out a small amount of water and did the same thing with the fresh water and chem add. No problems! I'll keep the percentage down from where I used to--especially since I don't have very many fish, and the ones I have a small for a 60 gallon tank.

I removed about 50 MTS one week, and about another 50 a week later, and now they seem to have reduced significantly in number. I'm getting a little algae build up, but it's good enough for my nerites--so I'm fine with a little algae.

Seems like the problem was the enormous change in water makeup from the before and after the water change, and that I was doing 50%. I am certain there are some unexplained things that were going on, but I'm sticking with it being the over population of the MTS and the level of bio waste they were producing that made up the water condition, which was dramatically changed when I did a large percentage water change. You can doubt it if you want. Based on my research prior, and my own findings after, this is what seems to be the reason.

Good news is, now I can start to build my cyp collection again!

Thanks again for everyone's input. Sometimes there are things you just have to learn the hard way.
 
While I am glad to read that your fish are now doing better, the conclusion that you have come to doesn't really have any hard facts to support it. While it seems clear that your fish died from some form of toxic shock, one can't rule out numerous other possibilities, such as a water main break in your area that allowed a large spike of heavy metals and other toxins into your water line shortly before your 50% water change. Believe me, it happens, as do deaths from chlorine/chloramine exposure, etc-etc-etc. You speak of an "enormous change in water makeup from the before and after the water change", yet you provide no details as what those water parameters were.

Personally I would be more inclined to blame the nitrate spike on overfeeding, than a couple hundred snails. Not that I think for one minute that nitrates killed your fish, or a large water change removing 50% of those nitrates caused a massive die off in your tank.


Sorry, but as others have stated the chance that this was caused from some kind of imbalance caused by 50-100 (or more) MTS seems impossible for those of us who have had far greater quantities in tanks for many years, without so much as a single death.
 
RD. said:
While I am glad to read that your fish are now doing better, the conclusion that you have come to doesn't really have any hard facts to support it. While it seems clear that your fish died from some form of toxic shock, one can't rule out numerous other possibilities, such as a water main break in your area that allowed a large spike of heavy metals and other toxins into your water line shortly before your 50% water change. Believe me, it happens, as do deaths from chlorine/chloramine exposure, etc-etc-etc. You speak of an "enormous change in water makeup from the before and after the water change", yet you provide no details as what those water parameters were.

Personally I would be more inclined to blame the nitrate spike on overfeeding, than a couple hundred snails. Not that I think for one minute that nitrates killed your fish, or a large water change removing 50% of those nitrates caused a massive die off in your tank.


Sorry, but as others have stated the chance that this was caused from some kind of imbalance caused by 50-100 (or more) MTS seems impossible for those of us who have had far greater quantities in tanks for many years, without so much as a single death.
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He he, yeah, and I left out the part about the aliens too! :nilly: Dude, none of us are scientists, and this certainly isn't a perfect lab environment where no matter how many times another person uses your scenario they get the same results = fact. We all had science class in school--too many variables for ANY of us to find a final conclusion here. I come from a family of scientists and believe me, if this was supposed to be a dissertation of every minute detail, it would be pages long and I'd still get disagreements.

I also live in a very metropolitan area (Irvine, CA, USA) you can look it up. If there was a toxic water problem, I would have heard about it.

Here's a simple breakdown. The only measurable variable was the MTS. Before MTS, no problems for many months. After MTS (and every other measurable constant being the same) I had the problem. Doing some research by reputable fish keepers online, I read about the possibility that the extra MTS were causing extra nitrates but gradual enough for the fish to adjust. Sudden water change removes much of the nitrates and changes the water chemistry to shock the fish.

With this hypothesis, I tried reducing the number of MTS through manual removal, less food, and assassin snails, gradual and lower percentage water changes--boom, problem gone, owner (me) happy.

I know posts (and emails) can be misinterpreted, so let me just say, I'm not trying to be mean or unappreciative. Just know I'm an intelligent, analytical person that doesn't take things like keeping fish lightly. If I thought I'd missed the cause of my catastrophe, I would still be earnestly searching for a cause. So far, mine is the most plausible to me.

So, peace to you, and Happy Thanksgiving, bro!
 
With other than this fiasco no experience with MTS, I can see how you might come to your conclusion. But being the intelligent person that you are, dude, factor this into the equation. The posters commenting in this discussion collectively have probably over 150 years experience in this hobby. We are either all very dumb, or you aren't nearly as smart as you think. :)


Doing some research by reputable fish keepers online, I read about the possibility that the extra MTS were causing extra nitrates but gradual enough for the fish to adjust. Sudden water change removes much of the nitrates and changes the water chemistry to shock the fish.
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As already explained to you, by more than one person, it doesn't work that way. That logic makes about as much sense as a person being removed from a room full of smoke, suffering from a sudden burst of fresh air when taken outdoors. If anything, that kind of shock would have been a result in a drastic swing of TDS. Possible, and certainly more probable than anything to do with nitrates. But again, there are numerous other factors that could have taken place, and if you think that Irvine reports every change in the water quality in any given area of your city 24/7 you are living in la-la land.


http://www.irwd.com/services/water-quality-report

MWD imports water from the Colorado River via the Colorado River Aqueduct and from Northern California via the California Aqueduct, also known as the State Water Project. IRWD generally uses water from the Colorado River, Northern California and local wells and the mix varies throughout the year. Imported water is treated at MWD's Diemer Filtration Plant in Yorba Linda using chloramines, a combination of chlorine and ammonia. IRWD also uses chloramines to treat your well water as it enters the distribution system. Generally, using this combination results in less chlorine taste and odor. Because your water sources may vary or be made up of a blending of these various types of water, you may notice a difference in the taste or hardness (mineral content) of the water at different times of year.
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I have seen this exact type of thing take place (from water main repairs, a sudden change in local supply water parameters, etc ) in cities much larger than yours, all across North America. In fact, the IRWD routinely flushes its water distribution mains, and they use chloramine in their system. Do you know what level of chloramine (ppm), is that level constant year round, and what do you use as a water conditioner to treat that chloramine, and at what level? Do you know what the TDS is year round, or even before this happened, and then after? These are some of the questions that I would consider before jumping to conclusions about MTS. But hey, what do I know, I'm just an old fart that lives in the hills.


BTW I celebrated Thanksgiving last month, but thanks.
 
RD. said:
With other than this fiasco no experience with MTS, I can see how you might come to your conclusion. But being the intelligent person that you are, dude, factor this into the equation. The posters commenting in this discussion collectively have probably over 150 years experience in this hobby. We are either all very dumb, or you aren't nearly as smart as you think. :)




As already explained to you, by more than one person, it doesn't work that way. That logic makes about as much sense as a person being removed from a room full of smoke, suffering from a sudden burst of fresh air when taken outdoors. If anything, that kind of shock would have been a result in a drastic swing of TDS. Possible, and certainly more probable than anything to do with nitrates. But again, there are numerous other factors that could have taken place, and if you think that Irvine reports every change in the water quality in any given area of your city 24/7 you are living in la-la land.


http://www.irwd.com/services/water-quality-report



I have seen this exact type of thing take place (from water main repairs, a sudden change in local supply water parameters, etc ) in cities much larger than yours, all across North America. In fact, the IRWD routinely flushes its water distribution mains, and they use chloramine in their system. Do you know what level of chloramine (ppm), is that level constant year round, and what do you use as a water conditioner to treat that chloramine, and at what level? Do you know what the TDS is year round, or even before this happened, and then after? These are some of the questions that I would consider before jumping to conclusions about MTS. But hey, what do I know, I'm just an old fart that lives in the hills.


BTW I celebrated Thanksgiving last month, but thanks.
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OK, buddy. Take it easy. No one said they had the absolute answer--not even the guys that are smarter than me. Everyone is speculating, and having a healthy discussion. Let's keep it civil.

Thanks.
 
Take it easy? Keep it civil? LOL
 
Right, you mean like ...... "He he, yeah, and I left out the part about the aliens too! :nilly: " Or telling me to look up Irvine CA, like ignorant little me wouldn't know where such a big important metropolitan area such as Irvine CA was located ?




I was trying to help, now this is me saying good luck, and good bye.
 
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