The Festae Sexing Methods thread...

[convict84]

this is very intresting,i have 10 juv festae atm,ive posted pics on here of them asking for a possible sex,all said they where male! because of the spangles on there fins,some have darkness in half of there dorsal fins,what is really in intresting for me is that on some of the ones i suspected that where female there spangles are fading,my festae are f1 and there mother/father are from ecuador,i have lots of pics of these which i will post soon.

 

[Otherone]

When I was raising Fesate it was always the fish with larger amount of blue spangling on the fins and body that grew into males. Dom's were easy Sub doms not so much. However there was 1 characteristic of the Festae I owned that stood out - The differences in the mouths - There was a difference in the shape of the lips the Males looked like they were frowning ( Lips straight or on a slight downward angle toward the gill plate) and the females looked like they were smiling (the lips kinda stuck outward and slightly curved uppward towards the gill plate). By no means does this replace venting as the only 100% true way to sex a Festae - lord knows on this sight I've seen way too many dudes lookin' like ladys when it comes to sub adult Red Terrors. This is just a characteristic triat I noticed with mine - raised 7 broods of Festae fry : 3 to get a Dom pair and 4 of the pairs offspring raised to sud adulthood.

 

[balton777]

Convict84, sounds like more justification for the wait and see theory. Little juvie Festae sexing methods are mostly unreliable.

Otherone-That sounded interesting so I went back thru some pics of my proven male juvie pics and they all look like they're smiling. Not a single one had a downturned mouth. Dang'it, I thought for a minute you might be on to something.

 

[Freshwaterpredators]

This is good. I agree with Balton on this matter. Buy the mouth thing is interesting. Maybe its not Just the mouth but the face and head profile. With all festae I've raised the females looked more feminine in the face than the males. Its not a method I used to sex. But after sex was determined I usually recognized them by their faces. Hmm I wonder if there's some truth to that.

Now what about festae varients from different collection points throughout Ecuador. I've noticed from all the pics I've seen. It looks to be at least two maybe three varients. Like Baltons pair for example, his male has high profile and has a brighter yellow color to him. His female is on fire and glows red. IV seen pairs similar to his. I had an F1 pair that were similar. Then the other varient I noticed was a wild pair I just sold. They displayed more green in color and and the females weren't as bright. Although they still all look like festae I'm wondering if its like dovii. Whether Nicaraguan or Costa rican They're still dovii Just a little color difference.

 

[Jason_S]

I agree it's worth dicussing, it's something that's interested me for some time. In my years of trying to figure them out, what I've learned is that different popluations of Festae have different traits and that maybe there is no set rule to sexing them. They can be frustrating sometimes. When you check out your Festae's fins, they may not exibit the spots at all. They don't all have them.




"Cich", I'm curious how long ago this article was written. This statement, "This photo originally confused me greatly, as up until the other day i would have said it was a male, because of the blue spots, but then it also had the black dorsal. So i asked a very knowledgeable Jeff Rapps about it, and he told me some in populations of festae, the female can also obtain the blue spangling, but never will a male get a Black dorsal. therefore this has to be a female, this is also enforced by the bright orange colour which would be unusual for a male Festae.", regarding this picture
View attachment 526134
is one I have to disagree with. He claims Jeff says it's female due to a black dorsal fin. I've personally seen males with a black dorsal but never a female with that much spangling in the fins. Not saying they don't exist, I just want more proof. Does anyone know who owns this fish? As much as I respect Jeff, I think either (A) he didn't put enough thought into his response. (B) He didn't make that statement. Or (C) He hasn't reseached this subject as much as I have. Personally I think it's option B. I'm going with the opinion that this is male displaying breeding colors due to body shape and spangling. Everything about this fish points to it being male.

Now see, in my experience with festae has been the opposite. I've seen female with spangling but never a proven male (in person) with any dark coloration at all in the dorsal or pelvic fins.

Please understand I'm in no way saying you're wrong, merely that we've had different experiences with them. As for the pic you referenced in that article, if asked I'd have agreed with the article that it is in fact a female.

No matter what though, I 100% agree that up to say 4-5" and you're really just guessing because up to that point festae can show characteristics of one gender but then change as they get bigger.

Oh and to the OP...I've never heard of the Y bar being used in sexing the fish, only in using to determine if the fish is a true festae or a uropthalmus.

 

[balton777]

Now see, in my experience with festae has been the opposite. I've seen female with spangling but never a proven male (in person) with any dark coloration at all in the dorsal or pelvic fins.

Please understand I'm in no way saying you're wrong, merely that we've had different experiences with them.

F0 male at 9" purchased from Mr. Rapps. (NM, I see you said in person)

As for the pic you referenced in that article, if asked I'd have agreed with the article that it is in fact a female.

LOL why do I have to be such a Festae fan....they can be so frustrating at times.

 

[balton777]

Lol remember when I thought this was a female? I kept wondering when it would get more red coloring hahahaha.

5" Festae.

Now what about festae varients from different collection points throughout Ecuador. I've noticed from all the pics I've seen. It looks to be at least two maybe three varients. Like Baltons pair for example, his male has high profile and has a brighter yellow color to him. His female is on fire and glows red. IV seen pairs similar to his. I had an F1 pair that were similar. Then the other varient I noticed was a wild pair I just sold. They displayed more green in color and and the females weren't as bright. Although they still all look like festae I'm wondering if its like dovii. Whether Nicaraguan or Costa rican They're still dovii Just a little color difference.

Fishbase.org says they're distributed in S. America in pacific drainages from the Esmeraldas River in Ecuador to Tumbes River in Peru. It also states there were occurences in Columibia recorded back in 1910. I don't see why different populations couldn't have evolved a little differently from one another like Dovii.

Ok I'll quit hogging the thread now....sorry.

 

[David R]

Lol remember when I thought this was a female?

So that turned into a male????

I'm screwed, there is no hope, I'll just have to wait.

 

[Jason_S]

F0 male at 9" purchased from Mr. Rapps. (NM, I see you said in person)
View attachment 526613




LOL why do I have to be such a Festae fan....they can be so frustrating at times.

That's an easy one to answer...just look at your own pic again.

Now in all fairness, the pic you posted they were guarding eggs so colors will vary much more than if they are not in breeding dress. The pair I had though, the male showed bars in breeding dress but they didn't go into his dorsal.

All fish are different however so there are always exceptions.

 

[MD_Festae]

Can anybody help me sex mine. LOL

I pretty sure I have one male (3 time the size of the others, and green tint covering most of the body) and 1 female (red coloring to entire body). Does the female festae get the green coloring?

The biggest is only about 1.5" , the other two are about .5 to .75"