The P# System..

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Ok, here some corrections in red what rays these are in my opinion or what would be the best name. Btw. the term sp. use only for a unknown species, a variant is not a sp.

Miles;1310454; said:
P1 – P. Motoro
P2 – P. sp. "Aparico" possible hybrid motoro x P. sp. "Peru"
P3 – P. Motoro “Morph”
P4 – P. schroederi “Columbian ray”
P5 – P. sp. aff Motoro, P. sp. "B"
P6 – P. cf. Histrix, P. sp. "C"
P7 – P. Scobina(some scientist now say this is a P. orbignyi varaint)
P8 – P. sp. “Marmor”
P9 – P. Dumerilii
P10-P. Humerosa
P11-P. Orbignyi
P12-P. Henlei
P13-P. Leopoldi
P14-P. Leopoldi "Eclipse"
P15-Plesiotrygon Iwamae - “Antenna Ray”
P16-Plesiotrygon Iwamae - “Antenna Ray”
P17-Plesiotrygon sp."Blacktailed antenna ray"
P18-Plesiotrygon sp."Blacktailed antenna ray"
P19-P. sp. “Mantilla”
P20-P. sp. “Mantilla”
P21-P. sp. “Mantilla”
P22-P. sp. “Orange”
P23-P. Humerosa
P24-P. sp. “Marmor”
P25-P. Castexi “Otorongo”
P26-P. Castexi “Otorongo”
P27-P. Castexi “Estrella”
P28-P. Castexi “Otorongo”
P29-P. Castexi “Hawaiian”
P30-P. Castexi
P31-P. Castexi “Tigrinus”
P32-P. Castexi “Tigrinus”
P33-P. castexi "Estrella"
P34-P. castexi "Estrella"
P35-P. Castexi “Otorongo”
P36-P. Castexi “Motelo”
P37-P. Scobina “Belem ray”
P38-P. Scobina “Belem ray”
P39-P. Scobina “Belem ray”
P40-P. Schroederi here I would say same as P39, Belem ray
P41-P. Signata
P42-P. Dumerilii
P43-P. sp. “Chocolate”
P44-P. Motoro sp. “Morph”
P45-P. Schroederi “Sacha”
P46-P. Humerosa “Mosaic Ray”
P47-P. Dumerilii “Flower ray”
P48-P. Signata
P49-P. sp. "Tiger"
P50-P. sp. "Tiger"
P51-P. sp. "Tiger"
P52-P. sp. "Tiger"
P53-P. Falkneri
P54-P. Castexi “Carpet Ray”
P55-P. cf. Yepezi
P56-Paratrygon Aiereba “Ceja ray”
P57-Paratrygon Aiereba “Manzana”
P58-Potamotrygonidae gen.sp. "China ray"
P59-Potamotrygonidae gen.sp. "Coly ray"
P60-P. cf. Histrix
P61-P. Humerosa
P62-P. Leopoldi "Sao Felix
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THANK YOU!@ :D :D

I will work on this revision tonight when I get home from work.. Hopefully we can collobrate more on this in the future..

Did you check out the google map?
 
Strange?? What was it regarding? You can PM me the info if you would like.. trying to collaborate with everyone to get a basis.

Rayman - The P. sp. "Tiger" you list in the 4 empty slots.. Is this synonymous with P. Menchacai?


Also.. The confusion with the 'Schroederi' Flower Ray.. I was under the impression that P40 was the peruvian flower, and P4 is the colombian 'True' flower. Does anyone have solid information on why this classification is under confusion, because these are obviously different fish.. Rayman, I noticed you referred to P40 as another Scobina 'Belem'.. Is their 4 varieties of the Belem Scobina? I have seen arguments for a number of variants of Scobina.

And.. P55 P. Cf. Yepezi.. Is this the true yepezi from Marcaibo, Venezuala? or is this the Peruvian Yepezi that is so often mis-labeled?
 
Miles;1317622; said:
The P. sp. "Tiger" you list in the 4 empty slots.. Is this synonymous with P. Menchacai?
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The holotype of P. menchacai is from Santa Fe, Argentina and Rosa wrote:
"The holotype of P. menchacai agrees with P. falkneri in all examined characters (dentition, tail spines, morphometrics and meristics), excepting the yellow spots on the disc, which are relatively larger than in typical specimens of P. falkneri. This condition is interpreted as an intraspecific variation of the color pattern, and P. menchacai is regarded as a synonym of P. falkneri"

The conclusion in the Aqualog, that the tiger ray may be P. menchacai is only based on a pure black and white picture of the holotype in Rosas work. In this picture you can only see a nearly black ray and the disk shape and tail lenght is similar to that of a tiger ray. Btw. this is one of the better pictures in my copy, the former picture that show the paratype of P. falkneri is black in black with only some white dots and lines on it ... no ray visible ... so it is impossible to compare the body shape with the menchacai holotype.

I was under the impression that P40 was the peruvian flower
Click to expand...
P40 is imported from Brazil. I think that the P39 and P40 show the same species, P39 is juvenile and P40 adult.

Does anyone have solid information on why this classification is under confusion
Click to expand...
Rosa wrote:
"Most of the aerly and recent original descriptions were incomplete, and failed to include enough characters for specific diagnoses. The taxonomic status of several species has remained douptful because their type specimens have been lost." p.3
and
"Several species of potamotrygonids were based on a single, sometimes imperfect specimen, and some have been known only from their poor original description or illustration. The taxonomy of potamotrygonids has reached a complicated and confused state, so that a major revision is necessary." p.39

Each author of a f/w stingray book bring in his own ideas without scientific work and the result is a mess.

So my best answer is:
"There are no answers, only choices" ;)

Rayman, I noticed you referred to P40 as another Scobina 'Belem'.. Is their 4 varieties of the Belem Scobina? I have seen arguments for a number of variants of Scobina.
Click to expand...
Patricia did much work on the scobina in Marajo Bay, there are some color variants. But none of them look like the scobinas in our tank or like the P37-P40.

So best would be to label the P37 - P40 as P. sp. "Belem"

And.. P55 P. Cf. Yepezi.. Is this the true yepezi from Marcaibo, Venezuala? or is this the Peruvian Yepezi that is so often mis-labeled?
Click to expand...
That is a Peruvian ray, so better is P. sp. "Peru".
 
I think till their is no real scientific resurch, the P system schould stay as it is. Everybody is interperting this in it's own way and is making conclusions based on personal interpertations. So as long as the scientist do not even agree and most of the rays we know are not scientificly studiet.We can't change it.

A small example the P 14 in the aqualog book is called an eclips ray or a Leopoldi Eclips. Most of the leopoldi owners will know that the animal on the picture is an adult Leopoldi and more of 85 % of the older leopoldi develop black spots in the center of the white spots. So the spot is turning into a ring. You can even "make" a eclips in a few monhs time. As you can make an eclips from a henlei also. So what is it then a P13 or a P14 I think these are still the same animals.

I think when the resurch is done they will come to the conclusion their will be 5 species of stingray with variants in this species, but that is a completaly differnt discussion.
Best regards
Frank
 
Just for reference...
 
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