The real BATMAN

[anth.payne]

Cultural differences. In the Amazon rays are considered a pest, much more so than Pirrhanas.

The ray isnt in the amazon.

Some cultures think cows are sacred animals, or pigs are unclean animals, other cultures eat them. If you ever get hit by a ray you will understand the health risks too. Just keeping tropical fish can present a health risk, given some of the nasty pathogens that can be found in many tanks (eg: vibrio cholera)

*Vibrio Cholerae - which does not have the same symptoms as cholera, at all. At the worst, vibrio species causes gastroenteritis, but mainly gives you an infection in wounded areas. There are hundreds of types of bacteria found in aquarium water - most are harmless - some mildly harmful, but not fatal.

No to mention these Pathogens are in a controlled environments.

More to the point, this argument is going no where, and more of an argument against fish keeping - not a reason for culling a batman ray.

Surely figuring out any associated health issues with a batman ray and figuring out the original causes of the defect make it worth more dead than it is worth alive.

Yes, this is valuable information, which can be gathered once the ray dies of natural causes. These natural causes may give even more insight once establishing the cause of death, which may or may not be related.

Let me know once you have a valid argument...

The

 

[Bogwoodbruce]

There is no substantial reason for this ray to be killed and especially if it isnt genetic.

Things such as flowerhorns, parrot cichlids and baloon fish are worst for it as these have been bred purposfully for that mutation and are being done in HUGE quanities.

 

[DavidW]

There is no substantial reason for this ray to be killed and especially if it isnt genetic.

Things such as flowerhorns, parrot cichlids and baloon fish are worst for it as these have been bred purposfully for that mutation and are being done in HUGE quanities.

do you really think this wouldn't happen to rays once they are produced in sufficient numbers?( soon be there) .

A ray that dies of 'natural causes" is nowhere near as useful for autopsy exam as one that is still alive ( until humanely euthanized in controlled circumstances) . We are not looking for the 'natural' or any other cause of its death, we are looking for the cause of the batman defect in order to be able to understand and hopefully prevent it in future litters. A death from 'natural causes' would totally confuse the issue.

 

[coeus]

Thank GOD mine is nice and healthy, and over a year old!

just curious, how old is your batman?

 

[skynoch]

Maybe we're better off not finding the cause out....
When it is found I imagine there will be a big push for some breeders to start replicating the cause for more bucks.

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

THANK YOU everybody for having a mature adult discussion and debate!

just curious, how old is your batman?

Over a year old...lol

 

[Conner]

I am talking about counting teeth, looking at its internal organs, liver, kidneys etc and comparing them to other healthy animals that have been sacrificed....can;t be done with a live animal.
Defects are often accompanied by other less easily seen defects or problems.

This can easily be done with a live animal. X-rays, CT Scans, MRI, etc etc can all visualize different body parts, usually in much more detail than you will ever get cutting an animal open. You could also easily do side-by-side comparisons with normal rays, even siblings.

I agree that if this animal were to get sick and die, then it would be very worthwhile to perform an autopsy to see if there are any obvious differences, but if it is a healthy animal, actively and successfully competing for food, then culling serves no purpose other than to dispose of something you find personally distasteful. This is very unlikely to be caused genetically, and therefore cannot be passed on to future offspring. If that's the case, what possible harm could it cause to keep it alive?

 

[StefanW]

About 4 weeks ago, I also had a P14 pup (should get galaxy), which is half batman.

It was the second litter of this female (the one in my avatar). First litter has been 4 pups, this one with the half batman has only been this one pup. As it looks like, there would have been at least one more pup in this litter, but it died in a very early stage of pregnancy and came out nearly impossible to recognize as a ray

In this pregnancy, obviously something went wrong! I saw movements of the pups since about the seventh 7 week as usual, but sometime in the last third of pregnancy, movements suddenly stopped and I got more and more nervous...... Then, after the regluar time of about 100 days, this pup was born at about half the size of a usual P14 pup.

He's about 4 weeks old now and is eating adequate.

And I am surely not going to euthanize it

Regards
Stefan

 

[siluk]

This is no Batman, its Robin

Very beautiful group of Breeding P14. Hope one day i can get a pair.

 

[coeus]

About 4 weeks ago, I also had a P14 pup (should get galaxy), which is half batman.

It was the second litter of this female (the one in my avatar). First litter has been 4 pups, this one with the half batman has only been this one pup. As it looks like, there would have been at least one more pup in this litter, but it died in a very early stage of pregnancy and came out nearly impossible to recognize as a ray

In this pregnancy, obviously something went wrong! I saw movements of the pups since about the seventh 7 week as usual, but sometime in the last third of pregnancy, movements suddenly stopped and I got more and more nervous...... Then, after the regluar time of about 100 days, this pup was born at about half the size of a usual P14 pup.

He's about 4 weeks old now and is eating adequate.

And I am surely not going to euthanize it

Regards
Stefan

any chance you can snap another pic or 2 of this guy? id like to get a better look at him