The Use of Probiotics in Aquaculture

[4D3]

Directly from their website-"Probiotix works in three ways to improve your fish’s health: improved nutrients by your fish, cleaner phosphorus-reduced waste, and cleaner water as the probiotic-laden waste gets into the filters."

I asked here because I think it is relevant There are members on here more familiar than me with probiotics in the aquarium, and with fish food formulas and digestion. Perhaps I should have outlined my interest more fully to meet your requirements for this thread.

-Does anyone think this is as effective as dosing the water directly?
-Could this be more beneficial due to the frequent smaller dose instead of periodic larger dose?
-Could this be a better option than Rid-x as the medium used is fish food instead of some inert starch?
-Could this be less effective because of the percentage of probiotic that may not make it through the fishes digestive system?

My reply is after your question..

Does anyone think this is as effective as dosing the water directly? No, this is a treatment to make the canister more efficient.... Also any excess bacteria would either colonate or die.

-Could this be more beneficial due to the frequent smaller dose instead of periodic larger dose? No, establishing a colony takes weeks, it needs slow flow and anaerobic conditions.... Mine took 8 weeks to start, probably 4 months before it was effective and I could remove other measures

-Could this be a better option than Rid-x as the medium used is fish food instead of some inert starch? Yes, this would be better but not ideal. If you need rid-x you should probably research using Epsom salt as an infusion to food.

-Could this be less effective because of the percentage of probiotic that may not make it through the fishes digestive system? This is massively ineffective, think of it this was, to establish a colony of anything anywhere, you need to bombard it constantly so it is strong enough to establish,

I dose septico one time when I clean my canisters, I clean the mech filtration, then I rub septico into the mech sponges and and reconnect.... I swear, this took my cleaning from once a month to once a year! I ever do top up on my tank!

 

[jjohnwm]

I've only begun experimenting with Rid-X recently; the filter sludge I hope to eliminate by its use is a PITA to check as it's in the bottom of an opaque container, with about 30 gallons of biomedia situated immediately above. I will be checking for it closely during my next biomedia rinse, which is a year away.

I have no idea if the heterotrophic bacteria in this food will pass through the gastric system of the fish and remain alive and active once they take the "rear exit". But the thread as I recall it is focused on adding the probiotic to the water itself, usually in the filter, to let the little buggers gobble up sludge. Continued regular dosage would imply that these bacteria will not establish and maintain a viable self-sustaining colony and require constant "topping-up". I don't agree that establishing a colony of bacteria...or anything else...requires "constant bombarding". If you are doing that, it implies that the organism in question simply isn't making it on its own; you're creating the equivalent of a put-and-take population rather than a self-sustaining colony. And there are plenty of invasive critters around the globe whose burgeoning populations can be traced back to a single or a few accidental introductions, which were successful enough to get out of control.

The tiny amount of probiotic in the fish food would, I believe, be pretty ineffective on its own, except while it's inside the fish where it might help create a healthier environment. Even if it passes through the fish's gut and is still active, the dilution in the larger volume of tank water would be extreme.

Maybe this might be effective in a new tank, one that hasn't already got a bunch of accumulated sludge in nooks and crannies that can't easily be siphoned and cleaned out? Would regular feeding with this stuff help prevent the formation of that stuff in the first place?

In any case, spooning a septic-tank product into my filter was a huge leap of faith for a cynic like me. I for one won't be feeding what sounds like the fish-food equivalent of yogurt to my fish at the same time; that's just too avant-garde for my blood. Hopefully if someone tries it out they will post and update here.

 

[4D3]

I've only begun experimenting with Rid-X recently; the filter sludge I hope to eliminate by its use is a PITA to check as it's in the bottom of an opaque container, with about 30 gallons of biomedia situated immediately above. I will be checking for it closely during my next biomedia rinse, which is a year away.

I have no idea if the heterotrophic bacteria in this food will pass through the gastric system of the fish and remain alive and active once they take the "rear exit". But the thread as I recall it is focused on adding the probiotic to the water itself, usually in the filter, to let the little buggers gobble up sludge. Continued regular dosage would imply that these bacteria will not establish and maintain a viable self-sustaining colony and require constant "topping-up". I don't agree that establishing a colony of bacteria...or anything else...requires "constant bombarding". If you are doing that, it implies that the organism in question simply isn't making it on its own; you're creating the equivalent of a put-and-take population rather than a self-sustaining colony. And there are plenty of invasive critters around the globe whose burgeoning populations can be traced back to a single or a few accidental introductions, which were successful enough to get out of control.

The tiny amount of probiotic in the fish food would, I believe, be pretty ineffective on its own, except while it's inside the fish where it might help create a healthier environment. Even if it passes through the fish's gut and is still active, the dilution in the larger volume of tank water would be extreme.

Maybe this might be effective in a new tank, one that hasn't already got a bunch of accumulated sludge in nooks and crannies that can't easily be siphoned and cleaned out? Would regular feeding with this stuff help prevent the formation of that stuff in the first place?

In any case, spooning a septic-tank product into my filter was a huge leap of faith for a cynic like me. I for one won't be feeding what sounds like the fish-food equivalent of yogurt to my fish at the same time; that's just too avant-garde for my blood. Hopefully if someone tries it out they will post and update here.

You can't go wrong with a good sceptic tank bacteria!

 

[Cal Amari]

Too late to edit, should mention those are heaping measurements, so closer to a total of 1/2 - 3/4 tsp per week. Also keep in mind that that dosage will be bio load dependent. Some may need less, some may need more, depending on number of fish and waste produced.

From this and other posts I was under the impression it was a repetetive dosing process to maintain the colony. I get what your saying about how a colony should be self sustaining, and that sounds great, but reading through this thread is about all I know on this topic.
I'm also on city water and sewage, so I don't even have a septic tank, but I thought these products were used on a periodic regular basis for septic tanks, and from what I understood from this thread that was the same idea behind using it for eating fish poo too.

 

[4D3]

From this and other posts I was under the impression it was a repetetive dosing process to maintain the colony. I get what your saying about how a colony should be self sustaining, and that sounds great, but reading through this thread is about all I know on this topic.
I'm also on city water and sewage, so I don't even have a septic tank, but I thought these products were used on a periodic regular basis for septic tanks, and from what I understood from this thread that was the same idea behind using it for eating fish poo too.

OK let me give you some background, I was on city water for years. I moved to a farm in Australia and was forced to use a sceptic system.....mind blown.... I have moved back to the UK and the first thing that goes in my tank is septic tank bacteria.... Specifically Sceptico.

If you dose sceptic tank bacteria, it will exist in your filter.... I am using this with city water as we speak...I also have bio media as a substrate

I will put my life on the line when I stand by this advice... It cannot affect city water as the colony would exist in the filter...

 

[4D3]

From this and other posts I was under the impression it was a repetetive dosing process to maintain the colony. I get what your saying about how a colony should be self sustaining, and that sounds great, but reading through this thread is about all I know on this topic.
I'm also on city water and sewage, so I don't even have a septic tank, but I thought these products were used on a periodic regular basis for septic tanks, and from what I understood from this thread that was the same idea behind using it for eating fish poo too.

There is a stupid amount of fish in there.... 1 tiger Oscar, 1 black nasty, 2 electric blue Jack's, 1 red dragon, 1 female Festea, 2 silver dollars, 2 angels, 3 tiger pleco, 2 albino Cory, 2 Tiger Cory, 2 panda Cory, 2 feather fin.

My filters are so nuts they cope with all that!

 

[Cal Amari]

That is an impressive amount of fish to have no sludge in your filter. My comment was not about the city water, that was just in mentioning I have no experience with these products in a septic system. My response was in reference to Johns -

Continued regular dosage would imply that these bacteria will not establish and maintain a viable self-sustaining colony and require constant "topping-up". I don't agree that establishing a colony of bacteria...or anything else...requires "constant bombarding". If you are doing that, it implies that the organism in question simply isn't making it on its own; you're creating the equivalent of a put-and-take population rather than a self-sustaining colony.

 

[jjohnwm]

... and was forced to use a sceptic system.....mind blown....

Lol, if a septic tank blows your mind, do a bit of Googling on an "ejector system". I'm on one which was grandfathered when the province decided it was going to force all homeowners with that antiquated system to update to a septic bed, at a cost of many thousands of dollars apiece. The public outcry at such an edict was huge! The typically docile sheeple of Manitoba would not stand for it!

And so we continue on with this medieval level of technology in waste disposal. It was and is only legal on rural properties that are a minimum size...100 acres, I think?...and no new systems are allowed to be built. But the old ones are simple, foolproof and last forever, unlike septic beds.

 

[Something Fishy Here]

Interesting, it looks like good quality food with the possible added benefit of putting more micro organisms into the system. Price is in line with their other foods which i already use.

it could be useful if the bacteria live through the digestion and are added directly to the poo in the gut, then it will end up everywhere the poop ends up whether that be in the filter or trapped in the substrate, or under a corner of the driftwood etc.

I may try this on my next food purchase, but it would be months before seeing if there's any change on the canister as i only clean it every 4 to 6 months and it's still only moderately dirty then.