theory vs reality. i dont know which one to follow.

[giar]

ok so i live in Riau, Indonesia.
i am having problem with my tap water and i am getting crazy now.

tap water parameters
ph 6.2 -> swings to 7.2 in 24hours
ammonia 0.25ppm
nirite 0
nitrate 40ish ppm

there are about 12 LFS around where i live. which 7 of them are within 15km radius of my house, which is quiet close i suppose.

i went around and asked them about how do they do their water change.. ALL OF THEM just put their tap water in a huge ass container they have at on the 2nd floor of their store, leave it about 24hours and do water change..

in about 70km away from my house there 2 big reputable asian arowana farms, they exports hundreds or even thousands crossback, RTG, and super reds overseas per month varying in sizes, but mainly they exporting about 15-25cm arowanas.. the farm also use tap water/well water for their routines. put the water in a huge ass reservoir and with all the plumbings setup and stuff they do their water change.

i asked both the LFS and the guys in the farm about ammonia nitrite nitrate, they dont even know what they are.. they were like wtf are you talking about noob? lol.. they only know PH.

so i came up with conclusions..
1- all they do for their tap is just to gass off chlorine.. but nothing is done from what i am aware of to care with ammonia and nitrate.. as i mentioned at the beginning the tap water from where i live contains ammonia 0.25ppm and nitrate 40ish ppm. the 7 LFS nearby surely have more or less the same amount of ammonia and nitrate.. the farm i would guess about the same.

2- they are still using traditional ways to treat their tap water by leaving it 24 hours or so with some cement/bricks sump filtration .. and their fishes live and thrive. no fancy conditioners and things like that on regular basis..they even just use sponge for their filters no fancy bio media or whatsoever (as you can see from the pic)

3- no wonder i cant find any ammonia nitrite nitrate test kits everywhere here in riau, it is simply because no one knows what those things are.. i had to order it online, and even i had to go to singpore to buy some equipments for my tank. i got no problem with ammonia and nitrite, seachem prime and my cycled fx6 filters take care of it, but this freakin NITRATE DRIVES ME MAD!!! T__T

4- i think i am fcked up with all the knowledge that i have about ammonia nitrite nitrate that i got from reaserches these past 4months, because what i know doesnt match up with the reallity that i see with my own eyes. oh dear... sometimes knowing too much isnt good either lol???

HELLOOOO THEORY
HELLOOOO REALITY
which one of you should i follow???

Regards,
the confused and screwed man.

 

[giar]

some pics when i visited the 2nd largest arowana farm in riau, they mainly export to south east asia countries and china

 

[ShanerBock888]

They may just not have to worry about Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates because their tanks have well established biological filters, so it's never really an issue. Whether they're ignorant to them or not, ammonia is released by fish as a waste. It's a fact, unaffected by their ignorance of what's going on behind the scenes. The beneficial bacteria that you and all the rest of us are worried about, turn the ammonia into nitrite, and the nitrites into nitrates. Their sponge filters house these bacteria, whether the farmers are aware of it or not. And when they do the water changes, they remove the nitrates, which of course is the final product of the biological filtration and can't be removed any other way.

As for the water changes and pH, that's a bit more complicated, and I admit I'm no expert. My water comes from a well and is suitable for fish without letting it sit. My understanding is that letting it sit "gasses" the water - the gasses (mainly co2 I think) are released, and once gone, the pH is steady. Letting the water sit does not remove chlorine, I'm 99% sure of that. I think they get away with no conditioners because their water doesn't have chlorine in it. My water comes from a well, and therefore has no chlorine, and thus I do not use water conditioner. I do not know indonesia at all, but my guess is that if the local fish stores and local fish farms don't use conditioner, then that means there's no chlorine in their water source, and probably none in yours.

Hope this helps!

 

[robham777]

I have no idea, but that is very cool you got to visit the farm. I am with you 40ppm nitrate in the tap would seem to be an enormous issue especially for a breeding farm raising fry.

 

[giar]

They may just not have to worry about Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates because their tanks have well established biological filters, so it's never really an issue. Whether they're ignorant to them or not, ammonia is released by fish as a waste. It's a fact, unaffected by their ignorance of what's going on behind the scenes. The beneficial bacteria that you and all the rest of us are worried about, turn the ammonia into nitrite, and the nitrites into nitrates. Their sponge filters house these bacteria, whether the farmers are aware of it or not. And when they do the water changes, they remove the nitrates, which of course is the final product of the biological filtration and can't be removed any other way.

As for the water changes and pH, that's a bit more complicated, and I admit I'm no expert. My water comes from a well and is suitable for fish without letting it sit. My understanding is that letting it sit "gasses" the water - the gasses (mainly co2 I think) are released, and once gone, the pH is steady. Letting the water sit does not remove chlorine, I'm 99% sure of that. I think they get away with no conditioners because their water doesn't have chlorine in it. My water comes from a well, and therefore has no chlorine, and thus I do not use water conditioner. I do not know indonesia at all, but my guess is that if the local fish stores and local fish farms don't use conditioner, then that means there's no chlorine in their water source, and probably none in yours.

Hope this helps!

yeah but what they do for water change doesnt solve the nitrate problem, because this stupid nitrate is in the tap water.. and from my understanding, removing nitrates from our tank is by doing water change, but in this case it wont solve the nitrate problem.. yea some people may say use ro/di, but why those lfs and farms dont use it? i dont get it really lol

 

[flukekiller]

I would agree saying that they probably have massive filters so the affect is nill cause bacteria take care of it

 

[giar]

I would agree saying that they probably have massive filters so the affect is nill cause bacteria take care of it

yeah but how about the nitrate? how do they get rid of it by doing what they are doing given the condition their source of water itself contains nitrate?

 

[robham777]

Could you get a sample of their water and test it against yours?

 

[Fat Homer]

The problem with most these places in Asia is they have very little knowledge about diseases of sick fish...

The amount of times i've seen freshly imported aro's with lateral line erosion etc indicates to me they really just dont care, its all about moving the stock ASAP...

Even a lot of LFS' over here have little idea about LLE, and i've seen aro's worth over 10K USD with some serious holes down the sides of their bodies...

 

[giar]

Could you get a sample of their water and test it against yours?

i did test 3 LFS water with API Test kit..i took a sample and bring it home.. ammonia really close to 0 (there are some presents but less than 0.25ppm im 99% sure), nitrite 0 , nitrate high 60-80ppm.. which is pretty close with my water parameters in the tank