This Is Where PetSmart Gets Its Animals, And It's Not Pretty

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was going to post there, but just seemed to fit this one ATM.
 
Gill Blue said:
and once again the ego kicks in.



just because you can't recognize it in other species, you assume it doesn't exist. there are plenty of dogs that when they feel they've walked enough, will stop to rest, or played enough will stop playing. How is that not self awareness? I've done all I want to of this, I don't want to do it any more.

Tthere's research that shows this in other primate species, Chantek the orangutan that referred to himself as a person and other orangs as orange dogs? Self awareness and ego combined. How human of him.
How about saying he he had hurt feelings after being imprisoned? How do you express hurt feelings without self awareness?

How about capuchins that refuse to perform a task for a reward when they see other capuchins receiving a better reward for the same task? How can you feel slighted, feel you are being treated unfairly if you have no self awareness?
The same results occurred in chimps.
http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2010/04/22/chimpanzees-prefer-fair-play-o/
All these behaviors are expressed in human children as indicators of self awareness, so why don't they indicate self awareness in other species?
Ego.

Self awareness is like intelligence, it's a function of the brain. As such it stands to reason that it will be more or less developed not just from species to species but also individual to individual within those species.

Even fish have a degree of self awareness, if you can recognize it. If they didn't, aggressive fish would always fight, they wouldn't be able to recognize that they are inferior to the fish that just kicked their ass.
If a person says "He is stronger than I am, I can't win so I'd better not fight." it's an introspection because of self awareness, why isn't the same realization, albeit it less complex, the same thing in a fish?
Some fish play, how can you play without some form of self awareness?
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do you really believe humans and animals are some how equel ?
 
Gill Blue said:
Humans are animals, so your question makes little sense.
Do I believe animals are equal to animals? Depends on the specifics.
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Ok we all learned that in second grade.

Let me be more specific do you think the follwing are of equel value between the following animals... human or any other animal you can think of
 
equal is very complex and broud statement per say, we need other animals, insects, bacteria, viruses, plants, all these things are needed to sustain any life. When we take our selves out of the equation then yes we are more important, better than any other life form on earth.

But. in the reality of things we are in the equation, we just happen to be at the top ATM.
 
pops said:
equal is very complex and broud statement per say, we need other animals, insects, bacteria, viruses, plants, all these things are needed to sustain any life. When we take our selves out of the equation then yes we are more important, better than any other life form on earth.

But. in the reality of things we are in the equation, we just happen to be at the top ATM.
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If there was one species that the world would not only function normally but BETTER without, it would be humans. We need just about everything else
 
no argument there, world will be around for about another 4 billion before the sun does its dieing gasps and envelops most the solar system, there is no dowt in my mind that we will be long gone before that happens. And do not mean by way of space travel.
 
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Shark rips a guys arm off we dont blame the shark, most victims dont either. We are in its environment and cant over come its instinct to feed.

Same if a rhino busts that same guys head open. Cant blame the animal.

Now if i walk down your street you make a choice to attack me or let me be. We are have conscious thought, we can fight our basic instincts (some better than others) ---- so maybe the word equel isnt the best word and in no way do i think we should abuse or mistreat animals but i cant get on the humans are bad train every time one of these threads pop up. There are kids being treated just as badly as these animals. My concern will always be greater for them
 
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understand the term bad, good, right, wrong, moral, in moral are concepts, they are not real to any thing on earth but us to improve our livability as our population grows. we have no instinctual social behavior, we have been and continue to make it up as we go.
 
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pops said:
understand the term bad, good, right, wrong, moral, in moral are concepts, they are not real to any thing on earth but us to improve our livability as our population grows. we have no instinctual social behavior, we have been and continue to make it up as we go.
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Cant say i agree with all of that but to each his own.

The fact that we do things to improve our livability sets us apart in my eyes
 
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