Thorichthys with geophagus altifrons
- Thread starter ChuckCichlid
- Start date
Not unless you plan on a serious upgrade in tank size in the not so far away future. 8 altifrons are going to make your 125 seem VERY small once they begin to mature.
I didn't catch this last night, but it seems that you aren't going to stop asking this until someone agrees. Every time that you get the urge, please read the response from
JK47
in the following discussion.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/new-125-gallon-with-altifrons.708783/
Or just do want you want, and quit wasting everyone's time.
JK47
in the following discussion. https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/new-125-gallon-with-altifrons.708783/
Or just do want you want, and quit wasting everyone's time.
Everyone's right that 8 adult altifrons will be crowded in a 72 x 18 inch tank. Sure, you can do it when they're small, you could also add some other fish while they're all small, but be prepared to either upgrade tank space or trade away fish later.
Sometimes people make the mistake of thinking in terms of water volume and filtration rather than real estate. In other words, water volume, filtration, and water changes can all artificially support a population density that doesn't give them the room they need. There's a fundamental difference between a busy Malawi tank, where overcrowding mitigates aggression or mimics wild conditions where they might cluster in certain spots, and fish that live in open water or types that normally spend time moving and foraging. It's a different aesthetic and different needs for the fish.
Philosophically and aesthetically, a few things can happen. There's a distortion of scale where it's easy to get used to a crowded, busy tank and think a tank looks empty when it's actually closer to nature for the fish. Or we read a certain fish 'likes to be in groups' and we interpret that as they don't mind being crowded, but it's two different things. Or we see a large, magnificent tank with large, magnificent fish and don't realize it won't look or work the same in a smaller tank.
In a more practical sense, you can think of it this way-- instead of filtration and gallons, think of real estate, do the math for 72 x 18 inches in a 125, divide that by eight 12" long fish (96 total inches) and it's 13.5 square inches of real estate per inch length of fish. Suddenly a 'big' 125 gal tank doesn't seem so big if all 8 reach close to 12 inches. If you think what this will look like and what will be comfortable for the fish, it should be evident that you could start out with more fish while they're small if you want, but at some point you'll either need a bigger tank or less fish.
Sometimes people make the mistake of thinking in terms of water volume and filtration rather than real estate. In other words, water volume, filtration, and water changes can all artificially support a population density that doesn't give them the room they need. There's a fundamental difference between a busy Malawi tank, where overcrowding mitigates aggression or mimics wild conditions where they might cluster in certain spots, and fish that live in open water or types that normally spend time moving and foraging. It's a different aesthetic and different needs for the fish.
Philosophically and aesthetically, a few things can happen. There's a distortion of scale where it's easy to get used to a crowded, busy tank and think a tank looks empty when it's actually closer to nature for the fish. Or we read a certain fish 'likes to be in groups' and we interpret that as they don't mind being crowded, but it's two different things. Or we see a large, magnificent tank with large, magnificent fish and don't realize it won't look or work the same in a smaller tank.
In a more practical sense, you can think of it this way-- instead of filtration and gallons, think of real estate, do the math for 72 x 18 inches in a 125, divide that by eight 12" long fish (96 total inches) and it's 13.5 square inches of real estate per inch length of fish. Suddenly a 'big' 125 gal tank doesn't seem so big if all 8 reach close to 12 inches. If you think what this will look like and what will be comfortable for the fish, it should be evident that you could start out with more fish while they're small if you want, but at some point you'll either need a bigger tank or less fish.
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...On the other hand, as far as what you can do while everyone's small, there's a lot of possibilities, the point is it may not last long. I've seen small Thorichthys with small geos before, don't know how long it lasts before the Thorichthys get territorial.
Personally, I don't mind having a tank dedicated to a fish that will grow into the tank in time, but I've done it more than one way-- dedicate a tank to a single group of fish right from the start, keep other fish with them at first, or keep more than one type and later on decide which to keep in the tank. Rather than what's essentially another eartheater, have you considered something complementary you might not need to rehome after a few months?
Personally, I don't mind having a tank dedicated to a fish that will grow into the tank in time, but I've done it more than one way-- dedicate a tank to a single group of fish right from the start, keep other fish with them at first, or keep more than one type and later on decide which to keep in the tank. Rather than what's essentially another eartheater, have you considered something complementary you might not need to rehome after a few months?
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I agree with all the above comments.
And simply for aethsetic reasons, both species being earth eating, substrate dwellers, wouldn't you think having the South American tank be populated with just the Geophagines as cichlid, but accompanied by geographically correct species such as S American tetras filling out the upper regions , much more appealing.
Instead of housing a geographically incorrect mishmash.
I believe the cichlids would too, instead housing them, as floor space and trophic competitors, rather a proper dither fish that adds the feeling of security cichlids often require.
And then maybe have a Central American tank with Thorichthys and equally geographically correct species such as Astyanax tetras, or live bearers,
My altifrons males easily hit 12" in time, and made a 150 gal tank seem tiny.
If you simply must use another cichlid as a tank mate, something with a totally different appearance and trophic style, but from the same geographical area often works much better in the long term, keeping aggression from destroying the hierarchy.
And simply for aethsetic reasons, both species being earth eating, substrate dwellers, wouldn't you think having the South American tank be populated with just the Geophagines as cichlid, but accompanied by geographically correct species such as S American tetras filling out the upper regions , much more appealing.
Instead of housing a geographically incorrect mishmash.
I believe the cichlids would too, instead housing them, as floor space and trophic competitors, rather a proper dither fish that adds the feeling of security cichlids often require.
And then maybe have a Central American tank with Thorichthys and equally geographically correct species such as Astyanax tetras, or live bearers,
My altifrons males easily hit 12" in time, and made a 150 gal tank seem tiny.
If you simply must use another cichlid as a tank mate, something with a totally different appearance and trophic style, but from the same geographical area often works much better in the long term, keeping aggression from destroying the hierarchy.
I completely agree about most said so far. But sort of disagree about feeding patters only because I mix cribroheros species w/ thorichthys with no problems. The feeding patterns are slightly different. Thorichthys are more substrate pickers. Cribroheros and geophagus take large mouthfuls of substrate.
I wouldn’t mix them because of the water requirements are so different. Thorichthys need low-mid 70s and high ph. Altifrons needs lower ph and much warmer temps.
In a tank like that you’re better off skipping the altifrons and adding large group of thorichthys.
I wouldn’t mix them because of the water requirements are so different. Thorichthys need low-mid 70s and high ph. Altifrons needs lower ph and much warmer temps.
In a tank like that you’re better off skipping the altifrons and adding large group of thorichthys.
Sorry I get ahead of myself when I see other tanks. I didn't add any other fish. My altifrons are doing well. Seem to be bigger every day now. I would say they are 3 to 3.5 inches now and very active. What temperature should the water be? I see a wide range from 75 to 85 degrees. I keep them at 77 now.