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Could it be too frequent water changing? Whenever I do a water change my water turns cloudy for a day, before the water settles and becomes crystal clear. Why not just try leaving the set up alone for 1-2 weeks without doing anything and just a small water change <50% and see how it goes, instead of spreading hundreds on items? Just a suggestion.
 
Caveden said:
Could it be too frequent water changing? Whenever I do a water change my water turns cloudy for a day, before the water settles and becomes crystal clear. Why not just try leaving the set up alone for 1-2 weeks without doing anything and just a small water change <50% and see how it goes, instead of spreading hundreds on items? Just a suggestion.
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I don't do water changes, I have a continuous drip system setup but in one of my other posts I said I was going to turn it off to see if that help. The only reason I added water was because I had to drain the IBC totes to I could get most of the detritus out. My plan is to leave it alone and I also turned on my 75 watt UV because I was reading that will help with the bloom too. But Except for the drip system I have been leaving it alone hoping it would clear up for months. Only maybe 2 weeks ago is when u started to experiment with different things. I would want the DE filter even if I was not haveing the problem with the bloom. Just the thought that I can have a filter that will filter out the ICK theront and some bacteria is worth it for me. 2 microns is very small plus if I use cellulose fiber it filters out oils too. I want it to look like my fish are floting in air. If you tank turns a milky white like mine after every water change that means you are killing of BB don't know when you add the water conditioner before or after you start to add the new water or if you're rinsing your filter media the same day but a water change should not do that. Thank you for you suggested though that's why I post here when I am brainstorm about something
 
Tj203 said:
Ok I might have found one thing that can be contributing to the bacteria bloom for months.
I have two 275 gallon IBC totes in my basement for the sump. The first one I have set up as a settlement chamber I just drained it out last night and took out a bunch of detritus, I was not able to get it all as I have K1 in the tote but I had to get 90-95% of it. I did not realize how much had accumulated in there. I need to come up with a way to keep that clean, my first thought is, fill a reactor with some poly fill to try and filter some of it out I was also going to put a small pump in there to try and keep the detritus suspended. Also try and run more macanical filtration, I might hook up the DE filter to that tank instead I just need some sort of inlet screen for the pump so I don't suck up the K1.
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Are your sumps standing directly upon the basement floor? If so, then perhaps build a short stand to elevate them a foot or so, and then drill the bottom in one or more places and install drains with valves. You could open these and drain a few gallons of water every so often, hopefully taking the settled detritus/mulm with it.

I'm wondering if the current push towards bigger/faster/more/more/more has reached a tipping point, beyond which the benefits are outweighed by the difficulties attendant with all this gear. You have 500+ gallons of sump capacity, which sounds great...but now are finding it awkward to properly clean these monstrous sumps, largely because of their sheer size. One of the advantages of big sumps, IMHO, is all the space that they provide for media, heaters, etc. while still allowing clear and unrestricted access to all that stuff...and of course they increase the overall water volume in the system which is never a bad thing. But if the sump gets so big that you can't reach all of it easily...or if you have so much biomedia that it restricts access...then where's the benefit?

I haven't re-read all this or the other thread, but I seem to recall that at one time you were convinced this was not a bacterial bloom, and now sound as though you are re-thinking that. I also recall someone, think it was esoxlucius esoxlucius , warning of possible accumulation of detritus as being a possible factor here, but don't know if you did much consideration along those lines.

I don't mean to offend by my comments. I am definitely a simpler-is-better kind of guy, and I get the impression that you tend more towards the throw-money-at-it, more-is-better school of thought. Both of them certainly have merit; if your current approach isn't working, maybe try swinging in the opposite direction for a bit? Clear water isn't an impossible dream or an unrealistic expectation. Maybe a bit of a livestock reduction would help?

I think you said before that this is supposed to be enjoyable. I couldn't agree more; why bother otherwise?
 
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jjohnwm said:
Are your sumps standing directly upon the basement floor? If so, then perhaps build a short stand to elevate them a foot or so, and then drill the bottom in one or more places and install drains with valves. You could open these and drain a few gallons of water every so often, hopefully taking the settled detritus/mulm with it.

I'm wondering if the current push towards bigger/faster/more/more/more has reached a tipping point, beyond which the benefits are outweighed by the difficulties attendant with all this gear. You have 500+ gallons of sump capacity, which sounds great...but now are finding it awkward to properly clean these monstrous sumps, largely because of their sheer size. One of the advantages of big sumps, IMHO, is all the space that they provide for media, heaters, etc. while still allowing clear and unrestricted access to all that stuff...and of course they increase the overall water volume in the system which is never a bad thing. But if the sump gets so big that you can't reach all of it easily...or if you have so much biomedia that it restricts access...then where's the benefit?

I haven't re-read all this or the other thread, but I seem to recall that at one time you were convinced this was not a bacterial bloom, and now sound as though you are re-thinking that. I also recall someone, think it was esoxlucius esoxlucius , warning of possible accumulation of detritus as being a possible factor here, but don't know if you did much consideration along those lines.

I don't mean to offend by my comments. I am definitely a simpler-is-better kind of guy, and I get the impression that you tend more towards the throw-money-at-it, more-is-better school of thought. Both of them certainly have merit; if your current approach isn't working, maybe try swinging in the opposite direction for a bit? Maybe a bit of a livestock reduction would help?

I think you said before that this is supposed to be enjoyable. I couldn't agree more; why bother otherwise?
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The sump are on plastic pallets but I don't think that much would come out as it would get mixed up and suspended in the water. As far as the size of the sump the second one is spotless so I just the first one has detritus so it is working like I wanted it to I just need a way to export it now. I do not like to do maintenance on my tank that why I have a drip water change and geo's to stir the sand. That is the opposite of most of the people in the hobby so it takes some trial-and-error to get things right.but you are right I am a bigger is better if I could have 4 IBC totes I would. I am heavily stocked so it helps not so much about the money as the filter I got was used for only $130 new is over $1000. Unfortunately everything in this hobby is anecdotal and Is there are so many variables with everybody's tank. I was fighting multiple problems one was the floating particles the other was the milky bacteria Bloom I was only looking for a solution to the particles to begin with because I assume the bacteria Bloom would eventually go away but it did not. As far as a life stock reduction I am already thinking of it they are just breeding so fast. I really thought the babies would have got eaten faster but they just swim right by the big fish and they don't even look at them it is so crazy.
 
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Another question: how much water does your drip change system replace per week? With your stocking density, perhaps the change is simply too slow to keep up with waste production; maybe, rather than turning off the drip, try the opposite extreme and increase the flow/exchange rate? After all, the various filters we all use for our tanks are essentially just a substitute for new, clean water. Depending upon the availability of new water, it might be the simplest answer to many water quality issues.

I'd love to hear an explanation from someone for the temporary bacterial blooms which so many people seem to experience after a water change. My tank water is always at its clearest immediately after a change. I don't stir up the substrate before or during a water change, my changes are usually 70% or greater, and I don't get those mysterious blooms. My well water is untreated aside from temperature matching, and the changes are regular and frequent. If the water being introduced is properly treated as required (de-chlorinated if city supplied, etc.) why would a bacterial bloom be caused? The sessile bacteria populating your biomedia would be unharmed by a water change and should continue to perform their function, so what prompts a bloom of bacteria...of any type...in the water column itself?
 
My nitrates are never over 20ppm and usually more like 5-10ppm.
jjohnwm said:
Another question: how much water does your drip change system replace per week? With your stocking density, perhaps the change is simply too slow to keep up with waste production; maybe, rather than turning off the drip, try the opposite extreme and increase the flow/exchange rate? After all, the various filters we all use for our tanks are essentially just a substitute for new, clean water. Depending upon the availability of new water, it might be the simplest answer to many water quality issues.

I'd love to hear an explanation from someone for the temporary bacterial blooms which so many people seem to experience after a water change. My tank water is always at its clearest immediately after a change. I don't stir up the substrate before or during a water change, my changes are usually 70% or greater, and I don't get those mysterious blooms. My well water is untreated aside from temperature matching, and the changes are regular and frequent. If the water being introduced is properly treated as required (de-chlorinated if city supplied, etc.) why would a bacterial bloom be caused? The sessile bacteria populating your biomedia would be unharmed by a water change and should continue to perform their function, so what prompts a bloom of bacteria...of any type...in the water column itself?
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My nitrates are never over 20ppm and usually more like 5-10ppm. Also bigger water changes are worse for bacteria blooms.
70% water changes are to big in imo that the smaller the better to help keep the parameters more stable that is another reason I went with the drip system. If you had chlorine in the water it could cause that because it can kill the bb maybe someone adds the water conditioner to late? As far as the well water IDK it should not do that I have a filter and uv light on incoming well water and never had a problem on any other tank.
 
My goal is to be able to turn off the drip system and run a closed eco system. I have 2 algae scrubber, sulfur denitateor and I am growing pothos but will be moving that from the top of my sump to a DWC hydroponics system. I also might try and grow some vegetables instead of pothos not sure just a thought.
 
"Water changes are too big..."? No such thing IMHO. My parameters remain stable, and I don't wait until my nitrates reach a certain level to make a change. With frequent changes, parameters simply don't drift so fast that there is ever a huge difference before and after the change. This is partially due to a lower stocking density in my tanks, but I firmly believe that there is much more to water changes than merely dropping nitrate leves.

We all "know" from reading the experts that certain species don't do well with large water changes. A perfect example of this would be Caridina and Neocaridina freshwater shrimp. Those experts all tell you that they don't tolerate large-scale water changes, when in fact what they are intolerant of is large and sudden shifts in parameters. The Red Cherries in several of my tanks happily live, grow and breed with constant large water changes, because the parameters remain stable. I just pulled a hundred or so very small Cherries out of my Musk Turtle's tank, which gets a 99%+ water change a couple times a week!

With stocking levels as high as yours, maybe the levels would be altered sufficiently between changes to cause some kind of issue, but I tend to doubt it.

A filter, and even a UV unit, on incoming well water? What comes out of your well? Certainly nothing that would harm your beneficial bacteria. Mine provides clean water.
 
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Just because you never had a problem dose not mean it is the best way. Will large water change kill fish probably not but smaller ones are better. Every one is an expert but it is all about there tank not science. Drip water changes are the best there is because of how stable the tank stays. You do you
 
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