too much filtration a bad thing?

[Merbeast]

IMO. you should consider removing the undergravel plate; research has shown this style of filteration causes a nitrate build-up over time.

While I am not a fan of undergravel plates, they have been used for decades successfully to support fish populations. They are cheap and effective. They WILL gunk up over time and should be broken down and cleaned regularly but not often (depending on bio load, so maybe yearly or bi-yearly).
With proper maintenance an undergravel plate will not be a detriment to the fish.

P.S. Again, I am not a fan of undergravel plates and have not used one in 15 years. HOBs, Canisters and wet/drys (and even sponge filters) are more convenient to maintain.

 

[benzjamin13]

You can never have too much filteration, just becareful of how much flow you're getting out of them since some fish like their water to be gentle.

 

[itzacraze]

undergravel filters should be banned from the hobby.. who wants fish **** residing on the bottom of the tank where nothing can get to it...whispers are decent filters and as long as you keep good charcoal in them and do water changes you are good..... a good size water change once/few times a week is like have a 1000 whispers running on your tank ... everyone is so concerened about putting as much filter as they can fit.... heres an example of 1 of my tanks..... i have a colony of convicts in a 55 that breed non stop.... there are up 2 50 juvenile fish in there at times 100's of babies and 2 fully grown adults... thats a huge load for a 55 gallon tank.. i have an aquaclear 110 and a huge sponge mainly to catch the dead side of the tank and keep still water for the babies.. but i do 2 water changes a week on them and my parameters are tight my fish are disease free and colerful and very productive just as cons are known for...

 

[Bderick67]

IMO. you should consider removing the undergravel plate; research has shown this style of filteration causes a nitrate build-up over time.

Nitrates are the product of biological filtration, right? All biological filters cause a build up of nitrate, this is why you do water changes. I think you are confused and would like to read the research you are refering to.

undergravel filters should be banned from the hobby.. who wants fish **** residing on the bottom of the tank where nothing can get to it...whispers are decent filters and as long as you keep good charcoal in them and do water changes you are good..... a good size water change once/few times a week is like have a 1000 whispers running on your tank ... everyone is so concerened about putting as much filter as they can fit.... heres an example of 1 of my tanks..... i have a colony of convicts in a 55 that breed non stop.... there are up 2 50 juvenile fish in there at times 100's of babies and 2 fully grown adults... thats a huge load for a 55 gallon tank.. i have an aquaclear 110 and a huge sponge mainly to catch the dead side of the tank and keep still water for the babies.. but i do 2 water changes a week on them and my parameters are tight my fish are disease free and colerful and very productive just as cons are known for...

UG filters are very efficient if properly maintained. Whisper filters are of poor design and you should not need to use charcoal except to remove meds. Seems that you blast people for having lots of filtration on their tanks yet the example you have given is of an overfiltered tank

 

[Aqua Doctor]

I'm sorry if some of you misunderstood what point i was trying too get across.

IMO. Undergravel plates are now obsolete.

Regular Water changes help to remove nitrates, but you also need to vacum your substrate; and with a UGF that becomes more difficult.

Over time....regardless......nitrates build-up.

 

[Merbeast]

undergravel filters should be banned from the hobby.. who wants fish **** residing on the bottom of the tank where nothing can get to it...whispers are decent filters and as long as you keep good charcoal in them and do water changes you are good..... a good size water change once/few times a week is like have a 1000 whispers running on your tank ... everyone is so concerened about putting as much filter as they can fit.... heres an example of 1 of my tanks..... i have a colony of convicts in a 55 that breed non stop.... there are up 2 50 juvenile fish in there at times 100's of babies and 2 fully grown adults... thats a huge load for a 55 gallon tank.. i have an aquaclear 110 and a huge sponge mainly to catch the dead side of the tank and keep still water for the babies.. but i do 2 water changes a week on them and my parameters are tight my fish are disease free and colerful and very productive just as cons are known for...

An AC110 is "rated" for a 100 gallon tank, and you also have a "huge sponge". Rating wise, which many new hobbyists go by, you are overdoing it. Water changes are great, but (unless they are daily or more often) they are no replacement for a cycled filter. I prefer to do waterchanges 2 to 3 times per week, but I would never remove filters and rely solely on water changes.

p.s. When I had ugfs and when I worked at an lfs that had ugfs, I never had a problem doing a gravel vac on them. It works the same as a tank without an ugf.

 

[Bderick67]

I'm sorry if some of you misunderstood what point i was trying too get across.

IMO. Undergravel plates are now obsolete.

Regular Water changes help to remove nitrates, but you also need to vacum your substrate; and with a UGF that becomes more difficult.

Over time....regardless......nitrates build-up.

So help me understand how an undergravel filter increases nitrates more then any other biological filter.

 

[Wolf3101]

As already stated you can't really have too much filtration as far as the fish go however you can....and many people do... have far more filtration than they really need. This creates a maintaince headache and excessive power consumption thats not necessary.
Another danger of this sort of filtration is that it can extend the maintaince interval out to the point that...rather than removing the fish waste from the water by cleaning/changing pads... we're leaving it in the water to basicly decompose and increase the bio-load.

Moving massive amounts of water is not the same thing as cleaning and processing the water correctly. The efficiancy of the filtration system has a lot to do with this IMO.

 

[]v[onster Loaches]

So help me understand how an undergravel filter increases nitrates more then any other biological filter.

Because stuff gets sucked down and trapped under them and decomposes = gunk = nitrates. If cleaned properly this will be minimal but it can be difficult to thoroughly clean them. If you werent sucking the gunk down under the gravel, it would be out were you could more easily get to it, or another filter may suck it up and you can clean it out. But if you maintain them well I know several who still use them successfully. But most that have them have switched them to reverse flow (RUGF) where a powerhead is pushing water down the tube and up through the gravel. The prefilter on the powehead traps most the stuff and is easily cleaned. And they say the good bacteria colonize from the bottom up, where they are less likely to be disturbed. Also any stuff that is on/in the gravel will tend to get pushed up into the water column, where it can be more easily removed by your filtration.

As for overfiltering... I have a 75G with two XP3's and since the tank is heavily stocked I call it about right. For current I have two Koralia 4's (1200gph each) and a MJ1200 thats acting as my CO2 diffuser. Doe to a heavy amount of plants and driftwood I consider the current to be barely adequate for my current-loving fish, mainly loaches.

 

[Bderick67]

Because stuff gets sucked down and trapped under them and decomposes = gunk = nitrates. If cleaned properly this will be minimal but it can be difficult to thoroughly clean them. If you werent sucking the gunk down under the gravel, it would be out were you could more easily get to it, or another filter may suck it up and you can clean it out. But if you maintain them well I know several who still use them successfully. But most that have them have switched them to reverse flow (RUGF) where a powerhead is pushing water down the tube and up through the gravel. The prefilter on the powehead traps most the stuff and is easily cleaned. And they say the good bacteria colonize from the bottom up, where they are less likely to be disturbed. Also any stuff that is on/in the gravel will tend to get pushed up into the water column, where it can be more easily removed by your filtration.

This still will not produce more nitrates then a quality canister filter thats recommended cleaning cycle is every 60 days. What your actually trying to say is trapped debree decomposes = ammonia = nitrites = nitrates. So how is it different if the debree is trapped in a power filter or canister filter?