The science behind it, is not a 1" mathmatical equation, which the people selling you the filters will tell you.
But feel free to elaborate your point of view.
Trays in a canister filter. Why?
- Thread starter HrHagel
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The science behind it, is not a 1" mathmatical equation, which the people selling you the filters will tell you.
But feel free to elaborate your point of view.
You are right in a way.
But let me ask you this. Who has informed you of what the contact time needed for bacteria to grab hold on substances is? Is it your point of view, that if water flows through the filter quickly the bacteria cannot grab hold of the particles? Do you think of bacteria as having arms reaching out for particles passing by them, and if the velocity of the particles passing by is too great, they cannot grab it because they are too slow to react?
I respect your 30 years of experience, but remember, not too long ago fish were considered to only grow as large as theire enviroment. And how you shouldn't change more than 30% of the water during a waterchange, because if you did you would wash out the bacterias in your filter. You should also wait 2-4 weeks with adding fish to a newly setup aquarium because it took time for the filter to "mature", which is true, but if there aren't any fish to produce waste, there is absolutely nothing going on inside the filter, rendering the 2-4 weeks "maturing" time completely useless and false.
it's not just his opinion that contact time is more important then flowrates.......
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...8458-REVIEW-Fluval-FX5-vs-Eheim-Pro3-compared
...it's mine too. By no means am I saying one filter is better than the other ( I own neither), but it's hard to dispute the eheim's ability to cycle the tank 2 days faster than the fx5. What two things are different 1) Eheim has much larger biocapacity and 2) eheim has much LOWER flowrate......which means increased contact time.
I'm also a bit confused by how " you shouldnt change more than 30% of your water, because it will wash out the bacterias in your filter?" What does the amount of water I change have anything to do with the bio in my filter? I've been doing 50% water changes for about 20 years without incident and I know alot of discus keepers that can change up to 100% a day. Just curious where you got the info on this. Interesting
His last paragraph was an example of the many ideas that were commonly held in the hobby not so long ago that most will agree today are false. He agrees with you here.
No, i said the mass, but just as much the shape and limitations within the trays account for the loss of volume.
Kind of thought that was what you were getting at.
Lots of wasted space due to media shape in relation to the space limitations of the basket/tray.
I`ll only mention jgray`s post about his mods to the FX5 this last time.
But, if memory serves, he did pretty much what you are looking for.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...6707-Fluval-Fx5-Modification.&highlight=jgray
Kind of thought that was what you were getting at.
Lots of wasted space due to media shape in relation to the space limitations of the basket/tray.
I`ll only mention jgray`s post about his mods to the FX5 this last time.
But, if memory serves, he did pretty much what you are looking for.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...6707-Fluval-Fx5-Modification.&highlight=jgray
While bacteria don't have "hands", substances diffuse through cell walls. That is a process that relies heavily on contact time 
. As for the bacteria colonizing your fish tank - bacteria colonize the most suitable spot to live in, that is, the filter. As long as you have enough bio media, the amount of nitrfying bacteria in the actual aquarium will be minimal.
Sponges in that aspect, are not the best media ever, as you can get better results with a mixture of bio media, prefiltered by mechanical media. Sponges are; however, the cheapest bio media and perfect if you have the space.
As for the FX5, it's actual volume is 22 liters, the advertised media volume is 20 liters... A much smaller difference than what you were suggesting. The reason it loses to eheim 2260 in tests, is the fact that out of those 20 liters (as opposed to 23 or so in the 2260) only 6 are used for bio filtration media (as opposed to 18+).
As for your opinion, any facts to back it up?
. As for the bacteria colonizing your fish tank - bacteria colonize the most suitable spot to live in, that is, the filter. As long as you have enough bio media, the amount of nitrfying bacteria in the actual aquarium will be minimal.Sponges in that aspect, are not the best media ever, as you can get better results with a mixture of bio media, prefiltered by mechanical media. Sponges are; however, the cheapest bio media and perfect if you have the space.
As for the FX5, it's actual volume is 22 liters, the advertised media volume is 20 liters... A much smaller difference than what you were suggesting. The reason it loses to eheim 2260 in tests, is the fact that out of those 20 liters (as opposed to 23 or so in the 2260) only 6 are used for bio filtration media (as opposed to 18+).
As for your opinion, any facts to back it up?
As for the bacteria colonizing your fish tank - bacteria colonize the most suitable spot to live in, that is, the filter. As long as you have enough bio media, the amount of nitrfying bacteria in the actual aquarium will be minimal.
So, I`ll add your own words, "As for your opinion, any facts to back it up?"
I bought into the "bacteria colonize the most suitable spot to live in, that is, the filter." along with the need for ample "bio specific" media as the eleventh commandment of fish keeping.
See, it`s hard to make blanket statements like that.
I would guess there are a large number of tanks that have very little bacterial activity in the filtration and the owner only assumes his BB is in the media.
Only one way to know.
I took the challenge and removed "bio" media from my canisters and found the exact opposite of your statement, the bulk of my bacterial activity was not going on in the filtration.
I won`t say all systems are one way or the other.
I won`t even say, generally bacterial activity takes place in one area over another.
Way too many variables.
So, I`ll add your own words, "As for your opinion, any facts to back it up?"
I bought into the "bacteria colonize the most suitable spot to live in, that is, the filter." along with the need for ample "bio specific" media as the eleventh commandment of fish keeping.
See, it`s hard to make blanket statements like that.
I would guess there are a large number of tanks that have very little bacterial activity in the filtration and the owner only assumes his BB is in the media.
Only one way to know.
I took the challenge and removed "bio" media from my canisters and found the exact opposite of your statement, the bulk of my bacterial activity was not going on in the filtration.
I won`t say all systems are one way or the other.
I won`t even say, generally bacterial activity takes place in one area over another.
Way too many variables.
I'll apply this to every post following my last one.
Some seem to not atually read what i am saying, and others actually read things i haven't said, so i'll just stop bothering. This is a fun discussion that is turning into a lecture without an end. This topic was not at all about any of this, and is initially a result of me brainfarting briefly.
Feel free to carry on though, without me.
