Treating Hexamita aka Spironucleus

Cabie

Gambusia
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Mar 11, 2018
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It could be done with gel food, either using the Gel Mix made by New Life Spectrum, or crushing pellets into a powder and then adding unflavored Knox gelatin or Agar (with the epsom salt dissolved in the water used to make the gelatin before it is added to the pellet powder).

Given how it has worked for many people, maybe we can come to the conclusion that the concentration doesn't always need to be as high as 3% of the feed. But if anyone decides to try it with the 3% of the feed concentration, please let us know the results. There's epsom salt in Hex Shield, I wonder if they use the 3% of the feed dosage like in the study?
 

RD.

Crazy Canuck
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I will check with the owner next time we talk. If a fish is still eating, NLS Hex-Shield would be my first choice of treatment. I’ve had great success with that product.
 

RD.

Crazy Canuck
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Thinking about this more, I would imagine that the only way to incorporate 3% in to a dry formula, would be to add it as just that, 3% of the total formula when running a batch through the extruder.
 

Cabie

Gambusia
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Mar 11, 2018
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I will check with the owner next time we talk. If a fish is still eating, NLS Hex-Shield would be my first choice of treatment. I’ve had great success with that product.
Do you mean the owner of NLS? If so, could you also ask him the amount of metronidazole per gram of Hex-Shield food? I think it would be very useful information since sick fish and picky fish often tend to eat less than they normally would and therefore don't get a sufficient dose, but since a lower dose of metronidazole can also be effective if we just give it for a longer period of days, if we knew how much metronidazole Hex-Shield contains, we could calculate exactly for how many additional days we need to feed it to our picky fish for the fish to receive a sufficient dose.
 

RD.

Crazy Canuck
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Yes, the owner, I have known him for a number of years. I believe that he used Noga's recommendation, but I would have to ask. Having said that I doubt that he would want to share specific info about his product line with the general public. NLS instructions state to feed for 3 days, which I believe is also the same as per Edward Noga. But in order to be most accurate, when feeding one would need to weigh their fish as well, which most hobbyists are not going to do.

Dr. Edward J Noga suggests:

1. Bath

a. Add 19mg/gallon and treat for 3 hours. Repeat every other day for 3 treatments.

2. Prolonged Immersion

a. Add 25mg/gallon and treat once daily for a total of 3 times.
b. Add 95mg/gallon and treat every other day for three days.

3. via feed

25 mg/Kg of body weight/day for 5 to 10 days, or 100 mg/kg of body weight for 3 days. Retreat once if required.

…...………............…...………...


My recommendation is to follow the manufacturers recommendation, and if that doesn't help, rinse & repeat.


HTH
 

Cabie

Gambusia
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Mar 11, 2018
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Thanks, RD! So this means that as long as we can get the fish to eat at least 1/4 of what he normally should eat, the treatment would still be successful just by feeding Hex Shield for 5 to 10 days instead of 3 days.

Having said that I doubt that he would want to share specific info about his product line with the general public.
I think with medication, it would be very important for users to have access to this information. All the fish medications I've bought so far stated how many milligrams of the active ingredients their product contained. Can you imagine a veterinarian refusing to tell us the dosage of a medication he prescribes for our pet? Or if a child were to ingest a medicated fish food and have a bad reaction, you couldn't even tell the doctor how much medication he ingested. Or if your treatment failed and you then decided to bring your fish to a fish vet, the vet would ask you what treatments you have attempted so far, you would tell him you attempted treatment with metronidazole, but you wouldn't be able to tell him at what dosage, so how could he then help you adjust the dosage if you don't know what the first attempted dosage was? It's not like the required dosage for metronidazole is secret information anyway, I just think it's very useful information when you want to ensure your treatment is successful.
 

RD.

Crazy Canuck
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I didn't say that it wouldn't or couldn't be useful information, but that doesn't remove the fact that the pet food biz is very cut throat, and this isn't medication, it's medicated feed. I have fed medicated food in the past, and there was never any specific amounts of medication stated as far as what was in the feed per lb or kg. This was one of the most popular medicated feeds on the market for many many years. I haven't see it in these parts for several years.



IMO, if your fish is sick, and it eats any amount of this food it is majorly positive. Nothing else quite like it as far as I am concerned, so I'm not seeing negatives here - only positives.
 
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Cabie

Gambusia
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Mar 11, 2018
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In a cut-throat industry, I think stating the dosage of the medication actually gives you an edge. I know if I had to choose between two brands of medicated foods with the same active ingredients, I would pick the one that states how much of the active ingredients it contains, because that's the one that would allow me to ensure my fish is receiving the proper amount of medicine. Medicated food is more like a pill than food really, when you think about it. Its main purpose is to treat a disease, not to feed the fish.

But if he doesn't want to say how much Metronidazole it contains, maybe you could ask him what percentage of its body weight the fish should eat to get the proper dose? Like, did they calculate the dosage of the medication assuming that the fish would eat 1% of their body weight? Or 2%? The instructions just say to feed as much as the fish can eat in 1 minute, but this method, while it is an easy guide to follow, doesn't work very well with medicated food and can easily result in under-dosing. Sick fish and picky fish tend to eat more slowly.
 

RD.

Crazy Canuck
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At the end of the day every company has to make their own informed decision how best to market their products, especially when one considers that vast difference in the end users comprehension skills, and/or intelligence level. Ask the CEO of Seachem why they dumbed down their instruction on Prime/Safe. I know what Dr. Morin's answer was to me.
Not that your questions/views aren't valid ones, but again, when treating fish, any fish, any size/weight, without a DVM's proper diagnosis to begin with, it will always be a bit hit or miss when treating. In the vast majority of potential hexamita/spironucleus cases a generic feeding recommendation will suffice. This is IME. My advice, feed twice a day, and get as much into the fish as possible. Most fish won't find the taste to be that appetizing, some may not even eat it. I had one fish eat it for 3 or 4 days, and then refuse after that. Good news was it cleaned the fish up, and it went on to live a healthy life. The reality is there is no exact science to any of this, even when following the treatment levels etc given by someone such as Edward J. Noga.

I will attempt to call the owner next week, and while he will most likely tell me, unless he gives his permission I won't be posting that information here. I can only ask .....
 

Cabie

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 11, 2018
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Thanks, RD! I hope he will accept to share some information. Just knowing how many grams of food per gram of body weight the fish should eat to get the right dosage would already be a big help.
 
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