True Mini Marble

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T1KARMANN said:
I think you get small rays of every breed

I have a 9" male p14 with fully rolled claspers does that make him a mini p14 or just a smaller one

A few years back we saw lots of very small retics with fully rolled claspers at 6"

I respect that some find it amazing that some stay smaller than others




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I agree that there are small ones of everything, and I think we get crazy stating "adult sizes' everywhere then bashing someones "small" tank. That being said there seems to be more Mini Marbles then other breeds, I have one a female who had pups at 11 inches, and has not grown one bit since i got her (over a year ago). I was with shookones when he saw the male he posted pictures of and I firmly believe that fish could live happily for the rest of his life in 180.
 
I know a guy who just purchased a pair of 5 year old Leo
They had been kept in a 84x30 for all this time and was only 14" disk

Now are they mini Leo or stunted Leo


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T1KARMANN said:
I know a guy who just purchased a pair of 5 year old Leo
They had been kept in a 84x30 for all this time and was only 14" disk

Now are they mini Leo or stunted Leo


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TK, i think that you are missing the point... but honestly in your scenario sounds like small Leos as in an 84x30 they still should not have been stunted (depending on care) ...NOW the point the ray that op posted was imported out of columbia like 3 days ago... so how was it stunted ?
 
Wild caught rays may mature faster than captive bred due to them having better condition

I do understand that some marble stay smaller but smaller compared to what

What is the standard size for a marble ?


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DB junkie said:
I have 5 midgets for sure, several potential ones........

Just sharing my experience as far as breeding, one got dad's genes and stayed a midget, while 2 others had a midget dad, yet are getting big like their momma (these are 2 different litters). All I'm saying is it's way unpredictable. I'm hoping pure midgets are on the way, but even then I'd never guarantee they'd stay small.

Hopefully I know more soon, as it seems Larry's been on a role lately, as he's already shredded all my small females and is now working on the big girls.

Smallest midget is likely the other male (not Larry) at 8-9" I've had him long enough to consider him done growing (almost 5 years). Larry seems to still be putting on size. Female I'd say 11" she's been here almost 5 years as well, and she's the biggest "midget" just cause if they get bigger then her I don't really consider them midgets.
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Good to hear that Larrys a getting things done. How ever if theyr in under 13 and not growing anymore, theyr minis in my book :D
 
UnstoppableJayD said:
TK, i think that you are missing the point... but honestly in your scenario sounds like small Leos as in an 84x30 they still should not have been stunted (depending on care) ...NOW the point the ray that op posted was imported out of columbia like 3 days ago... so how was it stunted ?
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15" p14 in a 30" wide tank that's just wrong if you ask me and will stunt the ray


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going back to the original post and the replys regarding breeding. as we all other species you breed the traits you want to produce.

as t1 said some offspring are smaller . some are prettier some are larger some have different traits or a unique patter etc

you breed them to produce more of the trait you want. so if you want to breed one trait then you look for that trait to start with.

if you want blue eyes you breed the ones with blue eyes.

as t1 said some rays are smaller as with everything humans and everything else. you breed a small dog with another small dog if you are looking to produce small dogs.

makes sense to me.
 
I am pretty new to ray keeping but I have 2 mini's from Aquaman45 (Richard) and have seen his standard sized pups also.
From reading some of the comments about whether they are true mini's or just small specimens I have put some data based on humans to
put a little perspective. I know that we are completely different to rays but I thought it might help lol :).

the male 5th height percentile is 5ft 5in and the male 95th percentile is 6ft 2in, with the 50th percentile being 5ft 10in,
that's a deviation of between 4 and 5 inch. Meaning only a 7% range around the 50th percentile, with rough figures.

Now rays may be very different to us humans but my 4 month old mini's are only 2/3 the size of a standard ray new born with a four month age difference.
Now I with my limited experience I figure that a average sized female is 18 inch in disk diameter, using only a 7% deviation the size difference would only be
an inch and a quarter from average.
I know a lot of people with better information may be able to state that there is bigger deviations but I just wanted to put some figures behind the statements to compare
and get other peoples opinion. I feel that if the deviation is great enough they could be true mini's which may have occurred from environmental circumstances.
People on here know far more than me though so I would be interested to see what sizes they can produce so proper statistical data can be put together.

just my noob opinion though :)
 
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