very impressive. He has a good chance to KO Brock and it's not going to be easy for Brock to take him down. Maybe the winner of Mir/Carwin will fight Cain for the title shot.krichardson;3911498; said:
**UFC 110 - Nogueira vs. Velasquez
- Thread starter hamato_yoshii
- Start date
Minotauro Nogueira vs. Cain Velasquez - Impressive win for Cain. It's nice that he flashed that KO power that nobody thought he had in this fight. I've been on the Cain train for a while, and I'm not getting off now. Bring on Brock so Cain can keep the streak alive. (Dana just please don't do a Dos Santos/Cain fight before then)
Wanderlei Silva vs. Michael Bisping - I thought Bisping won this fight. Wandy had a nice finish to the fight, and if he did that all fight, he probably would have dropped Bisping sooner, but he didn't. Bisping landed more punches, and had numerous takedowns (which is a nice addition to his game). I thought Bisping really approached this well, and he looked like a different fighter. He has a weak chin, and thats normally something you can't overcome (although so does Silva), but I thought he deserved a win in this fight.
Joe Stevenson vs. George Sotiropoulos - I'm not surprised that George won, but I am surprised at how much he dominated Joe. Joe is a strong wrestler, and is normally pretty good on his feet. George won both areas of this fight, and if it weren't for Joe's strength, George could have submitted him numerous times. I like Sotiropoulos's build for this weight class a lot. He has nice reach, and is clearly very good on the ground. This is a pretty big win for him, I'll be interested to see who they give him next.
Keith Jardine vs. Ryan Bader - They showed a shot saturday night of Bader in the locker-room before his fight, and he was pounding the glove of his coach with repeated, heavy, left hooks, and he got the opportunity to put his practice to work against Jardine. He was looking for the hook all fight, and had some near misses early. When he did land it though, it was lights out. I thought Bader would take him down more, and Jardine did a good job at keeping distance, but fell a few minutes short. Good win for Bader, and he should get a nice reward in the form of a big time contender next.
Wanderlei Silva vs. Michael Bisping - I thought Bisping won this fight. Wandy had a nice finish to the fight, and if he did that all fight, he probably would have dropped Bisping sooner, but he didn't. Bisping landed more punches, and had numerous takedowns (which is a nice addition to his game). I thought Bisping really approached this well, and he looked like a different fighter. He has a weak chin, and thats normally something you can't overcome (although so does Silva), but I thought he deserved a win in this fight.
Joe Stevenson vs. George Sotiropoulos - I'm not surprised that George won, but I am surprised at how much he dominated Joe. Joe is a strong wrestler, and is normally pretty good on his feet. George won both areas of this fight, and if it weren't for Joe's strength, George could have submitted him numerous times. I like Sotiropoulos's build for this weight class a lot. He has nice reach, and is clearly very good on the ground. This is a pretty big win for him, I'll be interested to see who they give him next.
Keith Jardine vs. Ryan Bader - They showed a shot saturday night of Bader in the locker-room before his fight, and he was pounding the glove of his coach with repeated, heavy, left hooks, and he got the opportunity to put his practice to work against Jardine. He was looking for the hook all fight, and had some near misses early. When he did land it though, it was lights out. I thought Bader would take him down more, and Jardine did a good job at keeping distance, but fell a few minutes short. Good win for Bader, and he should get a nice reward in the form of a big time contender next.
cain/nog - went the way i expected. i hate to see nog go out like that, but i wish he would hang it up. he's got nothing left to prove. cain will have to wait for the winner of mir/carwin to face brock, then get the title shot after that. but he'll get his title shot by end of year. hopefully, they won't let him face dos santos to get next #1 contender
wand/bisping - i think the decision was good. as many times as bisping went for a takedown or got one, wanderlei got back to his feet. bisping scored more jabs and i think if he would've put his punches together more, he would've set up a big right. but at the same time, wand was scoring more leg kicks and was the aggressor the whole time. wand had 2 near finishes and if there were more time, he probably would've finished with the guillotine at end of second and with the knock down at end of 3rd (but i know "if's" dont count). bisping never came close to ever finishing wand nor did he ever have wand in trouble. I'm so so so happy wand won because bisping's camp was talking so much crap. "we beat this guy before (referring to when rampage beat wand), same *bleep*, different day." I love it that wand almost put bisping to sleep again. good to see wand and rampage shake hands after this fight though
sotoropolis/stevenson - didn't really matter to me who won this one although i am very impressed with sotoropolis, he won't handle bj like that. he is 2 or 3 more big fights away from being a true contender for the lw title though
bader/jardine - jardine is just on a losing streak. he has become nothing more than a gate keeper. feel bad for the guy actually
lytle/foster - that kneebar was sick. sub of the night justifiably
CroCop/Perosh - good to see CC get a W. props to perosh for taking a fight at last minute. but CC still over the hill in mma.
Sozsynski/Bonnar - was a bs tko stoppage, it was an accidental headbutt. this is another case where instant replay should come into play
wand/bisping - i think the decision was good. as many times as bisping went for a takedown or got one, wanderlei got back to his feet. bisping scored more jabs and i think if he would've put his punches together more, he would've set up a big right. but at the same time, wand was scoring more leg kicks and was the aggressor the whole time. wand had 2 near finishes and if there were more time, he probably would've finished with the guillotine at end of second and with the knock down at end of 3rd (but i know "if's" dont count). bisping never came close to ever finishing wand nor did he ever have wand in trouble. I'm so so so happy wand won because bisping's camp was talking so much crap. "we beat this guy before (referring to when rampage beat wand), same *bleep*, different day." I love it that wand almost put bisping to sleep again. good to see wand and rampage shake hands after this fight though
sotoropolis/stevenson - didn't really matter to me who won this one although i am very impressed with sotoropolis, he won't handle bj like that. he is 2 or 3 more big fights away from being a true contender for the lw title though
bader/jardine - jardine is just on a losing streak. he has become nothing more than a gate keeper. feel bad for the guy actually
lytle/foster - that kneebar was sick. sub of the night justifiably
CroCop/Perosh - good to see CC get a W. props to perosh for taking a fight at last minute. but CC still over the hill in mma.
Sozsynski/Bonnar - was a bs tko stoppage, it was an accidental headbutt. this is another case where instant replay should come into play
pretty sure dos santos will fight cain before either get to fight brock. Hopefully they won't make the winner of that fight fight for the interim belt after this first interim fight.
I thought the decision of the Vanderlei fight was good. As svang said, Wandy got right back up. I think like Bas in that some takedowns have too much weight in MMA. However, if you royally suck at wrestling and defending takedowns, you shouldn't be in MMA, IMO. At the end of every round, Vanderlei had Bisping reeling, especially the 3rd. I thought it would be a split decision, though.
I thought the decision of the Vanderlei fight was good. As svang said, Wandy got right back up. I think like Bas in that some takedowns have too much weight in MMA. However, if you royally suck at wrestling and defending takedowns, you shouldn't be in MMA, IMO. At the end of every round, Vanderlei had Bisping reeling, especially the 3rd. I thought it would be a split decision, though.
Wandy did get back up after the takedowns, but they are still takedowns, and they still score points, especially if you do it repeatedly, and dominate a area of a fight.
It's like if a guy gets tagged with a punch and gets back up, the punch still counts.
BTW, just because Bisping "wasn't close to finishing" doesn't mean he can't win the fight. Knocking a guy out is not a prerequisite to winning a mma fight.
It's like if a guy gets tagged with a punch and gets back up, the punch still counts.
BTW, just because Bisping "wasn't close to finishing" doesn't mean he can't win the fight. Knocking a guy out is not a prerequisite to winning a mma fight.
Silva has a weak chin???
Dude is a straight up beast who is too wild for UFC fights...Pride is where this man belongs. He is past his prime tho.
I use to love Bisping but most of the time he comes off as a arrogant disrespecful british punk. After he disrespected Hamil after there fight I jumped off the bandwagon. He is a very exciting fighter tho!
I was surprised how easy Cain picked apart Big Nog. every punch was on point and looked deadly. I really hope he takes out Mir in a devestating fashion, this dude is for real. Ya Big Nog is done he should hang it up. Little Nog is the future! cant wait to see him fight again.
Dude is a straight up beast who is too wild for UFC fights...Pride is where this man belongs. He is past his prime tho.
I use to love Bisping but most of the time he comes off as a arrogant disrespecful british punk. After he disrespected Hamil after there fight I jumped off the bandwagon. He is a very exciting fighter tho!
I was surprised how easy Cain picked apart Big Nog. every punch was on point and looked deadly. I really hope he takes out Mir in a devestating fashion, this dude is for real. Ya Big Nog is done he should hang it up. Little Nog is the future! cant wait to see him fight again.
Cain has precision with his punches on top of remarkable power. The last 6 shots he landed on Nog were dead-on perfect.
I liked Cain before that fight, but after watching it, I can say I am really liking Valasquez more and more. What really got me was the way he acted after the fight was stopped. He was very respectful, didn't taunt, but seemed like he knew he was going to win by knockout...
I'm a bigger Valasquez fan now. The dude's got a great future ahead of him.
I liked Cain before that fight, but after watching it, I can say I am really liking Valasquez more and more. What really got me was the way he acted after the fight was stopped. He was very respectful, didn't taunt, but seemed like he knew he was going to win by knockout...
I'm a bigger Valasquez fan now. The dude's got a great future ahead of him.
geeah;3916985; said:
Yep, that has been one of his knocks for a while. He likes to go nuts on guys, but if he takes a shot, he drops.
hamato_yoshii;3916880; said:
i think one of the flaws in the scoring is that they think too highly of a takedown. if a guy is getting lit up and cut and bleeding, but scores downs, BUT doesn't succeed giving out any damage, they will give the round to the guy scoring takedowns.
And if they look at takedowns in such high regards, they should also give points to guys that successfully defends a takedown attempt or gets back up after being taken down. but it's not looked at that way which i think is bs. and you can't compare a take down to a punch that drops someone. it depends on wether or not the guy was hurt from the punch. and you can take 3-4 take downs but you can't take 3-4 punches that knock you down
that's part of why i liked pride and other japanese orgs. they score the fight as a whole, who did more damage, who tried to actually finish the fights and not score the fight based on who just tried to hold a guy down for 15 min. in the ufc and i think the whole US they use the 10-point-must system which works in boxing but is flawed in mma. If a guy comes out in rd 1 and beats up the other guy, almost knocks him out, attempts close call subs and all. but in rds 2 and 3, he gets taken down and held down the whole time but sustains no damage and was never in trouble although lost rds 2 and 3 because of the scoring system, he'll lose the fight because he lost 2 rounds. but in the fight as a whole, the guy that won round 1 clearly won the fight. in Japan, the guy that won round 1 would've won.
Bisping scored takedowns but he wasn't able to do anything with them. he was never dominating the fight nor was he ever dictating what or where the fight was going. which is why he didn't win the fight, not only because he never came close to finishing the fight. I feel wand was always pressing for the action, he was dictating the pace and had a lot of leg kicks, landed the harder punches, stuffed a lot of takedowns and was able to avoid damage while taken down and always able to get up. most damage done was done by wand. i scored 1st round for bisping (although could've gone either way), 2nd round for wand and 3rd for wand. 29-28
While I agree that the 10 point system may not be the best, it is what is currently being used, so we have to go by that.
I think that in modern mma, too much emphasis is put on the standup game. Guys get stood up from the ground if they aren't active, but nobody ever gets put on the ground if they are just circling on their feet. Takedowns are an important part of the game, and it is a way to score points, and it is also inherently what mixed martial arts is. If a guy is a great wrestler, and a average puncher, and a average BJJ guy, he is going to use his skills to try and win a fight. Those skills are going to be taking guys down, and roughing them up on the ground. Why should he be forced to try and trade punches with a guy whose strength is punching? Should that guy be forced to go to the ground and out-wrestle the other guy?
The way I see it, there are different areas of a mma fight, punching, clinch game, takedowns, ground game, damage shots (kick or punch), kicks, and so on. Not every fight showcases all of these, but most will have a little of some, and lots of others. When a fight goes to a decision, ultimately, I think the score should show who has won the most areas, because obviously no one was good enough to end the fight in one of those areas.
In this fight, I thought Bisping won more areas than Wandy. He was better in the stand-up, and he scored numerous takedowns, and he also (for the most part) shut down what Wandy's approach is (going nuts on his feet and looking for KO's), and made his opponent fight his fight.
BTW, I'm pretty sure takedown defense is part of the scoring.
I think that in modern mma, too much emphasis is put on the standup game. Guys get stood up from the ground if they aren't active, but nobody ever gets put on the ground if they are just circling on their feet. Takedowns are an important part of the game, and it is a way to score points, and it is also inherently what mixed martial arts is. If a guy is a great wrestler, and a average puncher, and a average BJJ guy, he is going to use his skills to try and win a fight. Those skills are going to be taking guys down, and roughing them up on the ground. Why should he be forced to try and trade punches with a guy whose strength is punching? Should that guy be forced to go to the ground and out-wrestle the other guy?
The way I see it, there are different areas of a mma fight, punching, clinch game, takedowns, ground game, damage shots (kick or punch), kicks, and so on. Not every fight showcases all of these, but most will have a little of some, and lots of others. When a fight goes to a decision, ultimately, I think the score should show who has won the most areas, because obviously no one was good enough to end the fight in one of those areas.
In this fight, I thought Bisping won more areas than Wandy. He was better in the stand-up, and he scored numerous takedowns, and he also (for the most part) shut down what Wandy's approach is (going nuts on his feet and looking for KO's), and made his opponent fight his fight.
BTW, I'm pretty sure takedown defense is part of the scoring.
