Ultimatum !!! Help with tank !

[jaws7777]

Not trying to disagree or confuse but you cannot does with safestart for atleast 24hrs after using any water conditioner.

As far as the wc with prime. I dose the tank before filling with tap water dose for the full volume of the tank not for the amount your adding.


Question how did op's fish grow this large if this were the conditions they were kept under ? At some point he would had to have a healthy bb colony, no ?


Did you read the link i sent you or read up on safestart ?

 

[skjl47]

this might be the case, I was under the impression that nitrites would be diminished by water changes which ultimately causes the tank longer to establish because it doesn't have enough nitrite to establish the necessary bacteria to turn it into nitrates. This can certainly not be the case, I'm certainly no expert on the matter. With these thoughts in mind I suggested small water changes to keep the nitrites from getting to toxic levels. If that's not the case I've been misled and I would appreciate enlightenment. In the event that I'm correct then the cycle would be slowed but fish health would be much better.

Hello; The information in this thread a few posts back indicated that there were no nit

this might be the case, I was under the impression that nitrites would be diminished by water changes which ultimately causes the tank longer to establish because it doesn't have enough nitrite to establish the necessary bacteria to turn it into nitrates. This can certainly not be the case, I'm certainly no expert on the matter. With these thoughts in mind I suggested small water changes to keep the nitrites from getting to toxic levels. If that's not the case I've been misled and I would appreciate enlightenment. In the event that I'm correct then the cycle would be slowed but fish health would be much better.

8.0 Ammonia / 0 Nitrite / 0 Nitrate / 7.2 PH Posting pics in a sec

2.2 PPM Ammonia / 0 Nitrite / 0 Nitrate / 7.0 PH

Hello; Back in posts #27 and #30 the test results were given for both tanks. 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate for bot tanks. This led down the path to the notion that the bb had been killed off by the chlorine. I understand that there are two types of bacteria in a cycled tank. one to deal with the ammonia and another to convert the nitrites. With 0 nitrites it seemed that the ammonia was not being converted and therfore no active (or very little) bb.

 

[Woefulrelic]

That's why I questioned the test kits, assuming is ammonia isn't fatal for the fish some sort of cycle should take place, but it's not. That's why I suggested small water changes. There shouldn't be 0 nitrites after a week of ammonia being oresent on top of safe start.

 

[skjl47]

Not trying to disagree or confuse but you cannot does with safestart for atleast 24hrs after using any water conditioner.

As far as the wc with prime. I dose the tank before filling with tap water dose for the full volume of the tank not for the amount your adding.


Question how did op's fish grow this large if this were the conditions they were kept under ? At some point he would had to have a healthy bb colony, no ?


Did you read the link i sent you or read up on safestart ?

That is a mystery. The OP has stated that the conditions have been ongoing for some time. Somehow we got to a notion that the "prime" was being mixed at a local fish shop and must be out of date or too weak to treat the tap water properly. I have been thinking that as the mixed prime continued to age it got to a point where the chlorine in the tap water killed off the bb.

I had lost track of your caution about waiting 24 hours to use safestart. I now suspect that the OP did not wait for the required time, based on his posts.

 

[jaws7777]

That is a mystery. The OP has stated that the conditions have been ongoing for some time. Somehow we got to a notion that the "prime" was being mixed at a local fish shop and must be out of date or too weak to treat the tap water properly. I have been thinking that as the mixed prime continued to age it got to a point where the chlorine in the tap water killed off the bb.

I had lost track of your caution about waiting 24 hours to use safestart. I now suspect that the OP did not wait for the required time, based on his posts.

Something doesnt seem right with this. Im no where near as experienced as your or many other members that posted in this thread but how could these fish theive and grow in these conditions at ine point op had to have a functional bb colony.. i guess

Only reason why i say to wait before dosing the safestart 24hrs after using a dechlorinator is thats what the manufacturer suggests. Ive used the product many times and it never failed me. I would feel bad if op went out and spent money on the product i suggested only to have it not work because of the 24hr period between dosings

 

[RD.]

The OP had a functional BB colony in this tank, until out of inexperience he overloaded the tank, did god only knows what all else, and crashed the tank by wiping out his BB colony. Sometimes it doesn't take much to push a heavily stocked tank, over the edge.

This is starting to get like trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together with most of the critical pieces missing!

I'm doing a wc right this second , doing 20% should I do more ? All I know that my water even though seachen ammonia alert its reading as safe . Is not , like I said earlier . I added 2 small fish in a breeding net in the tank today , after 10 minutes their eyes were peeling and turning white , gasping for air . is killing them.. So its bad , even though seachem is reading k.

Please go back and re-read what I posted with regards to getting FALSE positive ammonia readings when using kits such as yours, after using Seachem Prime. I have used the Seachem ammonia sensors for many years when setting up new systems etc, and have never personally had any issues, or ever read about any issues with them on the net. Ever. Those sensors should give an accurate reading for FREE ammonia (not TOTAL ammonia) such as our test kit reads, for approx. 1 year after placed in tank.

Why the eyes of your fish are peeling is anyone's guess at this point, as already suggested you may have something else going on in that tank (toxins?), or your tap water? None of us own a crystal ball, so some of this you may have to figure out on your own.

 

[Pataphysicist]

Not trying to disagree or confuse but you cannot does with safestart for atleast 24hrs after using any water conditioner.

As far as the wc with prime. I dose the tank before filling with tap water dose for the full volume of the tank not for the amount your adding.


Question how did op's fish grow this large if this were the conditions they were kept under ? At some point he would had to have a healthy bb colony, no ?


Did you read the link i sent you or read up on safestart ?

I will wait another 24hr. Conditioner should be here tomorrow afternoon . the reason why i did a water change is because I saw and felt that the fish were uncomfortable in the tank , I know seachem ammonia alert is reading that is safe , but then why as soon as I drip a fish in the tank , their health deteriorates within minutes , fins start to get red, slime coat start peeling and eyes get white and peel. That only tells me is ammonia burn . I can't explain why nitrates are at 0 alot of you can't think how, I really don't know . I did have some bb at some point , and my few grew healthy and big. I admit it was my fault that this happened , I stated that I buy and sell a lot , so usually I buy small and sell small so it goes into the 75 gallon with growouts, now on the past month I introduced 2 x 18" bass to the tank , I think this is what led to the system crash . I didn't give it time for the tank to go into a cycle to handle the extra bio . when I saw water getting cloudy , I did big water changes 50% twice a week, thinking the tank was dirty . so I kept disturbing the bb blooms , leading to total crash . I can't explain how my arowana, enndli and gara are showing no signs of ammonia burn, aro and endli are as healthy looking as can be, but am sure there is some damage done internally . Now , lets rule out the bad water from fosid , the reason why I say this is once again, I add same water to the 75 and I feed that tank constantly , 3 times a day. 2 x time with carnivore sinking pellets , at night with blood worms and alegea wafers , i overfeed and tank is normal and fish are growing by the minute 1" azuls are 7" in 3 months. I'll dose tank again once tetrasafe start arrives , but then should I not do wc for a certain time after I add the bb ?

 

[Pataphysicist]

The OP had a functional BB colony in this tank, until out of inexperience he overloaded the tank, did god only knows what all else, and crashed the tank by wiping out his BB colony. Sometimes it doesn't take much to push a heavily stocked tank, over the edge.

This is starting to get like trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together with most of the critical pieces missing!



Please go back and re-read what I posted with regards to getting FALSE positive ammonia readings when using kits such as yours, after using Seachem Prime. I have used the Seachem ammonia sensors for many years when setting up new systems etc, and have never personally had any issues, or ever read about any issues with them on the net. Ever. Those sensors should give an accurate reading for FREE ammonia (not TOTAL ammonia) such as our test kit reads, for approx. 1 year after placed in tank.

Why the eyes of your fish are peeling is anyone's guess at this point, as already suggested you may have something else going on in that tank (toxins?), or your tap water? None of us own a crystal ball, so some of this you may have to figure out on your own.

Wish someone of u lived close , so I can get some help in person ;(. I don't think there any other chemicals in the tank , maybe I should look inside canister? But that means disturbing w/e small amount off bb trying to grow now . one thing I did notice that my clown knife kept fighting with the male bass daily , at times all the fish would get stressed , maybe they released too many hormones and slime coat water ? Its just speculation , I don't know if that cause a problem or not . not sure, just throwing things out there

 

[skjl47]

Wish someone of u lived close , so I can get some help in person ;(. I don't think there any other chemicals in the tank , maybe I should look inside canister? But that means disturbing w/e small amount off bb trying to grow now . one thing I did notice that my clown knife kept fighting with the male bass daily , at times all the fish would get stressed , maybe they released too many hormones and slime coat water ? Its just speculation , I don't know if that cause a problem or not . not sure, just throwing things out there

Hello; I understand that this is stressful for you. let me keep to a couple of simple points. First is that you have very little to lose by opening up the canister. You have a tank crisis of some sort. Get a clean bucket of tank water and put the stuff from the canister in that while you inspect it. As long as the bb on the surfaces stay wet and are not without food too long they will not die right away. You should have many hours. Getting to the bottom of the issues is more important. If nothing else this should eleminate the casinster as a source of the problems.

 

[skjl47]

I will wait another 24hr. Conditioner should be here tomorrow afternoon . the reason why i did a water change is because I saw and felt that the fish were uncomfortable in the tank , I know seachem ammonia alert is reading that is safe , but then why as soon as I drip a fish in the tank , their health deteriorates within minutes , fins start to get red, slime coat start peeling and eyes get white and peel. That only tells me is ammonia burn . I can't explain why nitrates are at 0 alot of you can't think how, I really don't know . I did have some bb at some point , and my few grew healthy and big. I admit it was my fault that this happened , I stated that I buy and sell a lot , so usually I buy small and sell small so it goes into the 75 gallon with growouts, now on the past month I introduced 2 x 18" bass to the tank , I think this is what led to the system crash . I didn't give it time for the tank to go into a cycle to handle the extra bio . when I saw water getting cloudy , I did big water changes 50% twice a week, thinking the tank was dirty . so I kept disturbing the bb blooms , leading to total crash . I can't explain how my arowana, enndli and gara are showing no signs of ammonia burn, aro and endli are as healthy looking as can be, but am sure there is some damage done internally . Now , lets rule out the bad water from fosid , the reason why I say this is once again, I add same water to the 75 and I feed that tank constantly , 3 times a day. 2 x time with carnivore sinking pellets , at night with blood worms and alegea wafers , i overfeed and tank is normal and fish are growing by the minute 1" azuls are 7" in 3 months. I'll dose tank again once tetrasafe start arrives , but then should I not do wc for a certain time after I add the bb ?

Hello; I do not think that you can rule out the source water for the reasons stated. Back in one of your posts, the water in that 75 tested for elevated ammonia and 0 nitrates or nitritis. It seems possible that the 75 did not exhibit the issues so clearly being that it was not so overstocked.

At this point it may not be wise to "logic" such things out. Check them out. Get a report and talk to the local water company. Consider that the problems with the fish are other than ammonia only. I suggested to remove the decor from the tank and you ruled this out without trying it.

It may also be a mistake to assume there is bb in the 75. My take from your posts is that the same proceedures are used on both tanks. Again I suggest to get some bb material from another source.

While I cannot yet suggest a tie to the fact that you buy, sell and trade a lot of fish, It is a factor to think about.