under gravel filter

[Gill Blue]

well, thanks for that wow, I always thought nitrate creep was when they crawled out of the tank and crept across the floor to smother me in my sleep.
still don't have it.
so in other words, you stirred up the sand to re-introduce the settled detritus into the water column so another percentage can be captured before the rest settles to the substrate, again.

 

[wow_it_esploded]

well, thanks for that wow, I always thought nitrate creep was when they crawled out of the tank and crept across the floor to smother me in my sleep.
still don't have it.....

So. You're telling me that you never have to do waterchanges? Your bacteria just magically poof away all the waste that they consume? OH, question, does this tank with this UGF have fish or another living organism in it? Everyone has nitrate creep unless they have something to remove it, and an UGF will not just poof away nitrates. Plants will, denitrators will, algae scrubbers will, but not UGFs.

....so in other words, you stirred up the sand to re-introduce the settled detritus into the water column so another percentage can be captured before the rest settles to the substrate, again.

No, waste does not settle in playsand, and when you stir it up nothing is unsettled. I stirred it up to prevent pockets of anaerobic bacteria forming gas.

 

[Gill Blue]

I don't actually know if I don't need to change water or not since I do. and there wouldn't really be a good way to test it since maintaining the filter involves removing water as part of the cleaning process. the bacteria doesn't poof it away, they eat it, or breath it... I don't know if I've ever seen which it is. the deeper the bed, the larger the anaerobic area since the top layer uses the available O2.
here's another example. anaerobic bacteria
I can tell you that when I was 15 I broke my arm and couldn't do water changes on my 90 with a 12" oscar and 8"ish senegal bichir for 6 months and my nitrates never exceeded 35 ppm. I did go in one handed and net out the poop. I was also running a 6" bed since I'd read oscars were dirty fish. the filter was run by 2 optima pumps- the ones with the dual outlets. 2 plates with 4 riser tubes. there were no real plants in there.

I don't stir my sand (actually colorquartz). I've got a 2.5-3 inch bed full of rooted plants I don't want to mess with. the cories, loaches, and snails keep the top of it moving around.

 

[lilpendragon]

I do as well consider UGF as on old technology. The major problem I see are people from the current generation trying to use the old technology with the assumption that it will work like the new and essentially 'suck up all the waste from under the gravel' and from there it *poofs* out of existence. Truth is most people that didn't grow up using them don't understand how they work or how to maintain them. That's why pet stores hate them, because people bring in water tests with nitrates off the charts (resulting from never siphoning the gravel and waste getting trapped underneath). I don't think you can get away with over feeding or overstocking using that kind of filtration either, and bottom line, some people have too many fish. It's much easier imo to siphon the gravel and use hob filters for tanks under 75 gallons. I just don't like the idea that waste could be trapped under there that you can't see. At least with hob you can look in the box and see what has been floating around in your tank.

If it works for you and your fish and you don't mind putting in extra work if need be, then that's all that matters.

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[DIDYSIS]

Ya I used a ugf once and will never use one again. I also prefer sand allot more and think it helps the tank stay cleaner

 

[skjl47]

I do as well consider UGF as on old technology. The major problem I see are people from the current generation trying to use the old technology with the assumption that it will work like the new and essentially 'suck up all the waste from under the gravel' and from there it *poofs* out of existence. Truth is most people that didn't grow up using them don't understand how they work or how to maintain them. That's why pet stores hate them, because people bring in water tests with nitrates off the charts (resulting from never siphoning the gravel and waste getting trapped underneath). I don't think you can get away with over feeding or overstocking using that kind of filtration either, and bottom line, some people have too many fish. It's much easier imo to siphon the gravel and use hob filters for tanks under 75 gallons. I just don't like the idea that waste could be trapped under there that you can't see. At least with hob you can look in the box and see what has been floating around in your tank.
If it works for you and your fish and you don't mind putting in extra work if need be, then that's all that matters.


Hello; I agree that any filter system needs to be operated properly to be effective. It is also clear that some fish keepers are not aware of how filtration actually works. I recall a post in which the OP thought that because the excess food that had been put into a tank was picked up by the filter intake that the filter had "taken care of it". The operational parameters of whatever system used need to be understood.
I do not look at it as an either/or situation. I will continue to set up some tanks with UGF, but will usually have an HOB in operation at the same time. I also vaccuum gravel as much as posible around the rooted plants. In some setups there may only be a sponge filter operated by air.
I am reluctant to discard a good tool simply because it is not the newest technology available and had thought this was the implication of some posts. Perhaps I misread the intent of those posts.

 

[thepotz]

Gill Blue has it right. I have a 35 gallon tall set up in my house and everyone on this site would freak out if they knew how often I vacuum the gravel, or do water changes. NEVER!!!! The last time I vacuumed the gravel was probably 3 YEARS ago. Previous to that was probably 4 years. The only reason I actually vacuumed it then, was because I introduced a few crawdads and moving some things around, I noticed the gravel had become a piece of concrete! i moved slabs of gravel around that the bacteria had made a sort of plastic filler, and I figured the water must not be getting through the gravel very well like this, so I blew the dust off my gravel vac and went to town on it and broke it up. I have a 5" severum, 3 goldfish, a black skirt tetra, 2 plecos and 5 chubs. The severum, I rescued from a lfs that really didn't (still doesn't) know how to care for fish, and the rest are from friends that dont want their fish anymore. This tank only gets water topped off when it evaporates, and is due for that right now, other than that, I feed the fish daily, and my kids feed sometimes too, so they probably get overfed quite a bit, yet the UGF does it's job every day with way more efficiency than ANY HOB filter I've ever used, and the canister filters don't get rid of Poo like the magic of the UGF does, so YES!!! POOF! ... and MAGICALLY THE POO DISAPPEARS! And, every test I've ever done on that tank has had no traces of ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite. I simply don't test it anymore. I sit here and Laugh about everyone making all these water changes and such. I think I would abandon the hobby if I had to change the water weekly in any of my tanks. I've tried all the different types of filters, and UGF with a good powerhead is still the best. By the way, that powerhead has been running non-stop since 1996. I like algae scrubbers for my planted tanks, cuz I don't use UGF in my planted tanks, I use soil. but... The problem with algae scrubbers is... you still have to clean them. and they don't make Poo disappear! So for the BEST no-maintenance filter in the hobby,.. it's still a UGF with a Powerhead! Here's a pic of my no maintenance tank that still needs topping off.