Update for all of you New Life Spectrum Fans

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Status
Not open for further replies.
RD: Explain please.
Here is Ken's 9.5 mm sinking pellet's makeup - teach me how NLS (for example) is better quality.
Maybe NLS is "better" quality, but is it so good that it's worth more than double ?

Main ingredients: wheat flour, fish meal, soy flour, blood meal, hydrolyzed feather meal, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, liquid fish solubles, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dicalcium phosphate, salt, choline chloride, manganese proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, iron proteinate, cobalt proteinate, calcium carbonate, sodium selenite, vitamin a acetate, vitamin d3 supplement, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate (vitamin e supplement), vitamin b12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin k activity), folic acid, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, calcium propionate, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin c), ethoxyquin. Guaranteed analysis: crude protein 40.0% min., crude fat 7.0%min., crude fiber 3.0% max., moisture 12.0% max. Ash 8.0% max.
 
Here's what I found for NLS (1mm) - So even if wheat is third, it's all that big a difference ?

ngredients:
Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Red and Green Cabbage, Pea, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya and Peach), Vitamin A Acetate, DL Alphatocopherol (E), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Choline Chloride, Copper Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate and Manganese Sulfate.
 
RD: Explain please.
Here is Ken's 9.5 mm sinking pellet's makeup - teach me how NLS (for example) is better quality.
Maybe NLS is "better" quality, but is it so good that it's worth more than double ?

Main ingredients: wheat flour, fish meal, soy flour, blood meal, hydrolyzed feather meal, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, liquid fish solubles, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dicalcium phosphate, salt, choline chloride, manganese proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, iron proteinate, cobalt proteinate, calcium carbonate, sodium selenite, vitamin a acetate, vitamin d3 supplement, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate (vitamin e supplement), vitamin b12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin k activity), folic acid, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, calcium propionate, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin c), ethoxyquin. Guaranteed analysis: crude protein 40.0% min., crude fat 7.0%min., crude fiber 3.0% max., moisture 12.0% max. Ash 8.0% max.

Wheat as the first ingredient? Blood meal and feather meals as protein sources? Only one ingredient on that entire panel looks like something I'd want my fish eating... C'mon man, a fifth grader could tell the difference. If you have a dog or a cat, Im willing to bet they get iams or pedigree.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 
fwprawn - please re-read post #13.

The ingredients for NLS that you listed are no longer valid. New Life stopped adding soy to their food approx 2 yrs ago, and they are now using less wheat as well. I already explained all of this .....
 
Wheat as the first ingredient? Blood meal and feather meals as protein sources? Only one ingredient on that entire panel looks like something I'd want my fish eating... C'mon man, a fifth grader could tell the difference. If you have a dog or a cat, Im willing to bet they get iams or pedigree.
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
It's really not so simple a fifth grader could tell the difference and that's evident in there being so many differing opinions on food in this forum, or have you forgotten how many threads got locked because of people defending their different opinions on food a little too enthusiastically. It's also not an appropriate response when fwprawn isn't being stubborn or belligerent but merely asking to be enlightened. Can you really fault him for wanting to be educated? I just don't want to see this thread go the way of the others when there's so many knowledgeable people posting here and it would be a waste of valuable information.

Even I(and while I'm no expert, I consider myself a man of relatively average intelligence and a average fishkeeper) am not clear on all the aspects of the differences between the two foods. Yes some jump out but you'll see where I'm hazy in the post I'm about to ask RD.

fwprawn - please re-read post #13.

The ingredients for NLS that you listed are no longer valid. New Life stopped adding soy to their food approx 2 yrs ago, and they are now using less wheat as well. I already explained all of this .....
Rd. I do see the huge differences in the ingredients and have read your post where you say NLS has stated they've increased certain favorable ingredients in their products make up but can I ask if they've ever put forth a percentage amount for said ingredients that your aware of that we aren't? I only ask because I'm a highly skeptical person and believe no matter what a company says ultimately their true allegiance is to the all mighty profit. As such I'm reminded of human supplements and their proprietary blend deal, which really means we make claims are products have a certain ingredient but don't tell you how much under the guise of protecting a secret formula. Many of which have been found to have put the bare minimum of expensive ingredients just to be able to claim they're in there. In other words perhaps NLS labels and their site are following a similar marketing strategy and are laid out in such a way as to give you a certain impression which may be intended to exaggerate your confidence in them. So maybe there's a lot more wheat flour than there is herring meal etc. and there label is laid out to make it seem as though there's a larger amount of herring meal by listing it in a place they figure most hobbyists will look first and will subconsciously stick in the hobbyists mind. Giving the hobbyist the impression the product is better than it actually is.

Just to make it clear I'm not saying NLS isn't a superior product nor am I saying it's inferior to anything, just questions that rattle around my mind when reading the labels and fishfood sites in general.
 
It's really not so simple a fifth grader could tell the difference and that's evident in there being so many differing opinions on food in this forum, or have you forgotten how many threads got locked because of people defending their different opinions on food a little too enthusiastically. It's also not an appropriate response when fwprawn isn't being stubborn or belligerent but merely asking to be enlightened. Can you really fault him for wanting to be educated? I just don't want to see this thread go the way of the others when there's so many knowledgeable people posting here and it would be a waste of valuable information.

Even I(and while I'm no expert, I consider myself a man of relatively average intelligence and a average fishkeeper) am not clear on all the aspects of the differences between the two foods. Yes some jump out but you'll see where I'm hazy in the post I'm about to ask RD.


Rd. I do see the huge differences in the ingredients and have read your post where you say NLS has stated they've increased certain favorable ingredients in their products make up but can I ask if they've ever put forth a percentage amount for said ingredients that your aware of that we aren't? I only ask because I'm a highly skeptical person and believe no matter what a company says ultimately their true allegiance is to the all mighty profit. As such I'm reminded of human supplements and their proprietary blend deal, which really means we make claims are products have a certain ingredient but don't tell you how much under the guise of protecting a secret formula. Many of which have been found to have put the bare minimum of expensive ingredients just to be able to claim they're in there. In other words perhaps NLS labels and their site are following a similar marketing strategy and are laid out in such a way as to give you a certain impression which may be intended to exaggerate your confidence in them. So maybe there's a lot more wheat flour than there is herring meal etc. and there label is laid out to make it seem as though there's a larger amount of herring meal by listing it in a place they figure most hobbyists will look first and will subconsciously stick in the hobbyists mind. Giving the hobbyist the impression the product is better than it actually is.

Just to make it clear I'm not saying NLS isn't a superior product nor am I saying it's inferior to anything, just questions that rattle around my mind when reading the labels and fishfood sites in general.

Excellent questions / points! It is my understanding that if something is under FDA control that the ingredient list has to show things in order of the greatest to smallest volume. I don't know if ornamental fish foods fall under that guideline. If the first ingredient is the highest volume, it could be that it is only .000001 grams more then the 2nd, or it could mean that it is the exact same volume of the 2nd or even that it is one kilo for 1st and .01 grams for second. So I agree the labels could be very misleading. I have never tried NLS that I recall, so I have no opinion of it. I keep saying I will.......
 
Pet food labels are highly regulated both on a federal and a state level, and again on an international level for those who ship across international borders. (such as New Life) The federal regulations in the USA are published in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Title 21CFR

By law:

Ingredients must be listed in order of predominance by weight, on an "as formulated basis". The ingredient that makes up the highest percentage of the total weight as it goes into the product is listed first. The ingredients used must be GRAS ("Generally Recognized As Safe), approved food additives, or otherwise sanctioned for use in animal feeds (for example, defined by AAFCO). Ingredients must be declared by the correct AAFCO-defined name, where one exists, or the "common or usual" name




I posted the following last year in another discussion along this lines.



As far as regulations ...........



Most people have no idea what type of red tape, regulations, and inspections are involved when actually manufacturing pet food, it can be an absolute nightmare for a US based company that has to not only deal with federal regulations, but also each state individually.

In the USA this involves not only the FDA, but also the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS), Veterinary Services (VS), and The Association of American Feed Control Officials. (AAFCO)

In many cases these regulations change on a frequent basis. It's gotten to the point that probably the less info one places on their label, the better, or you'll be updating your labels every 6 months. These changes cost $, for larger companies lots of $$$$ , and someone has to eat the cost of outdated labels, and yet another run of new updated labels.

As an example, most states allow Vitamin C to be listed on a pet food label, but all it takes is one overly anal state inspector to decide that it must be listed as ascorbic acid, and you are forced to either remove that listing from your label, or play by their new rules. Even if the vitamin C you are listing is the total content, most comprised from the raw ingredients themselves, not from some vitamin premix. One wrong word or term can equate to your product being disallowed in an entire state, and each state requires a permit just to get your product across their border, and like everything else, you have to pay for that privilege.

And that's just what takes place within the USA, now factor in all of the other various countries that some fish food products are exported to & things can become goofy stupid.

The USA & Canada couldn't give a rats behind with regards to things such as GMO products, but the UK requires additional labeling if the product contains .9% or greater GMO. A country such as Turkey doesn't allow any GMO products, not even if it's as little as .0001%. They use outdated testing equipment that simply tests positive, or negative, and if it's positive your shipment will be refused at their border.


I seriously doubt that fish food will ever come under the same type of scrutiny as dog/cat food, but it doesn't get any free passes either. Having said all that as clockwork suggested the way things currently are there are a number of ways that one can bend the rules & manipulate a fish food label, and some manufacturers do take advantage of these loop holes.

..........................................




After doing this as long as I have, I can open the lid of a fish food container, take a deep wiff, and have a pretty good idea how much starch vs marine protein is in the food. I've been known to perform taste tests as well. :)

As far as the "proprietary blend" comment, well hell yeah, only a moron would list all of the various percentages of each & every raw ingredient used in their food. You're talking about an industry where billions of dollars are at stake, and every one is attempting to get (and keep) their piece of the ever shrinking pie. And yes I do know things that I cannot share on a public forum, or anywhere else. I can also state that I have seen a nutritional analysis of NLS that was performed by a 3rd party non-biased accredited institution overseen by those who are considered experts in this field. This information was published in document that the owner of New Life was not even aware of for several yrs, at the time this institution asked if New Life would supply some food for a study they were performing on a species of wild fish, and Pablo gave them some food. That's where his part in the feed trial began & end.


BTW - I'm the original skeptic. ;)
 
And I get called long winded. lol :j/k:

Seriously though thanks for putting out such an informative post. I figured you might have access to info we aren't privy to and can appreciate why you can't reveal it. Still I have a couple of more questions if you don't mind for my own education because I do appreciate the value of good nutrition for my fish. How many fish food products ingredients do you have personal knowledge of? If that's too is something that you can't reveal, may I ask instead based on what you know; what product is the best bang for the buck? Personally perhaps due to me keeping cichlids mostly I've never had a problem with any of my fish being picky, so nutrition is first an foremost on my list followed by price so I'd like to know your opinion.

Also when I was talking about the proprietary blend deal I was talking about herbal supplementation and what a shady racket that can be since it's not FDA regulated. Some shady supplements hide behind the proprietary blend in order to mislead the consumer about the actual amount of the herb in a particular supplement where that herb is supposed to be in the majority of it's ingredients. Though perhaps I'm misinformed on that practice and how common it is or if it's even capable of being done. It was info. I gathered through sources that maybe less than reliable namely the internet and casual conversation and we should all know that much like TV and the newspaper you can't trust everything you find on the internet. So I fully admit my opinion on proprietary blends and herbal supplementation maybe wrong.

BTW-I bow my head in respect of the true original skeptic, as only he could have investigated the issue at hand so thoroughly. :D
 
How many fish food products ingredients do you have personal knowledge of?

I'm not sure that I understand the question?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MonsterFishKeepers.com