Validity Of Non-Live/Preparred Foods

[Scatocephalus]

First and foremost, my condolences to all who have lost fish in recent weeks. It seems as if we have had a spate of "dead fish" posts lately.

Secondly, this post is not meant to offend anyone so please don't be if I make reference to a fish that you may think is yours. This post is to start a dialouge and shed light on what's best to feed our awesome pets.

OK, now with that out of the way, I'm wondering if non-live foods are the best for a truely vivacious, healthy and vibrant Cichla? I understand the reasoning for weaning Cichla off of live food. Cost and prevention of disease. Great. Makes sense. But with that said, it seems like most of the young Cichla that have been lost in recent weeks were being fed non-live foods or at least an attempt was being made to wean them off of live foods.

I can understand the attraction... trust me. Having to always run to the store for feeders is both time consuming and expensive. The problem is that the fish which are pictured as eating shrimp or pellets always seem skinny and almost emaciated whenever pictures are posted. I've noticed this with a lot of the Cichla posted here that are on non-live foods, especially younger specimens. There was a recent pic of a young Cichla that is now on shrimp. The fish has a exceptionally large head, small body and very concave stomach. It has been my expereince that this is a malnourished fish. Are they truely getting what they need from the shrimp? My guess would be no. Just because they eat alot doesn't mean they are well nourished.

There are exceptions such as Joey's fish which look fantastic but I'm willing to bet he feeds them a butt load to keep them that fat and sassy. With that said, even Joey has mentioned how fish which he has given live feeders outgrow and outshine those that he feeds preparred foods to. To me this is a strong indication that the live feeders are a preferable diet.

Ideally, getting these fish on a combination of live foods and preparred foods would be best but the Cichla seem to wait for the feeders and ignore all other foods. It's an all or nothing type thing with them.

I'm interested in hearing what others think or have experienced regarding this subject. At the very least perhaps our young Cichla should be fed live feeders exclusively and then weaned onto preparred foods after they have matured somewhat. The larger, older fish are infinitely more capable of dealing with the lack of food that is oft times required to get them off of live.

 

[shookONES]

I've always been an advocate of the incredible nutrition value of feeding live foods. My gripe with live begins with the atrocious conditions many a LFS keeps such food, and the disease that runs rampant as a result. I have little doubt that live fish are the best food source. However, that's not to say that a combination of foods isn't equally, if not better, beneficial to our fish.

These guys are going through my 'grow out' program and are being hit with food, often. Mating with frequent water changes, I've been seeing incredible growth with these guys. I feed this tank primarily pellets (Massivore, Sinking Carnivore, Shrimp, and Algae), shrimp, tilapia, with live being offered scarcely, maybe once a month. These guys wait at the top of the tank in anticipation for whatever I offer. I think THIS is a key attribute to a HEALTHY cichla. They are starting to look at my fingers during a water change as a potential food source, so there is no excuse not to eat anything and everything. Its a matter of time, dedication, and talent via hobbyist, IMO.

Whooops...forgot the pic

(sorry to repost, but it fits well)

 

[Scatocephalus]

Those are some spectacular Cichla. Absolutely gorgeous! Very robust and healthy looking.

Perhaps frequency of feeding plays a vital role as well. How often to you feed. What is the regimen?

Here's a new shot of my male kelb which has been fed exclussively live food.

And a shot of the hopefully happy couple

 

[pwmin]

I'll give two anecdotal incidences comparing live to dead.

1) I have 2 pinima that I got from Rapps a couple months ago maybe. They both get frozen foods, but 1 of them eats live and the other WILL NOT! The one that eats live is growing much faster and is much more healthy looking. Of course, the one that doesn't eat live doesn't eat as much, but there's a huge difference.

2) Mike (HCR) and I got piquiti from Rich at the same time. At first, I only fed mine one live meal maybe once a week and he fed his feeders all the time. After about a month, his had grown a couple inches and were showing spots whereas mine grew maybe 1/2" and hadn't developed any spots. Again, his were fed more, but I can't see the difference being attributable to the amount of food exclusively.



I think there is a difference, though between frozen foods and pellets. I believe if they are on pellets, they will be more healthy than if they only eat frozen. I try to wean mine off live, but I still like to feed live and probably will continue for life if not once a week. This spring, I am going to catch my own fatheads and crayfish to feed them. As was said, I don't like feeding live because of the conditions feeders are raised and kept in, but I think Cichla are one fish that should get live food.


...my $0.02 from my limited experience

 

[R1_Ridah]

I've always been a strong believer in feeding live. When it comes to baby PBASS especially. I feed nothing but live until it reaches a certain size (above or close to the 9-10"). When it has that nice girth and size to it then I'd start to wean off. It's much easier and safer for the Pbass health because they have the neccessary stored fat.

Now, being most of my PBASS are all over the 12"+ mark I feed live once a week (Saturday or Sunday). During the week I switch from Beefheart, Hikari Gold, Hikari floating sticks and sometimes raw market shrimp. I feed maybe twice during the weekday. This makes the PBASS lean and alert when it comes to their hunting skills. They are not spoiled so when something hits the water they will know to eat because who knows when the next meal will be....LOL... you would be surprised on how intelligent PBASS are.

I have one that was used to just eating raw market shrimp, everytime I threw it in there it would pass it up thinking the next dropping will be shrimp. Well, after a few days he had realized that while everyone was eating away his beloved shrimp was not coming. The next time I fed beefheart he jumped on the bandwagon to join his fellow PBASS in the feeding.

When feeding live just take the precaution of treating your feeders before feeding. I have the luxury of the LFS I go to that already does this. Say they receieve the Feeders on Monday, I'll buy on Wednesday. Then, have an extra tub ready with adequate airetion and will feed them (gut load) the next day.

All my baby PBASS right now are on blackworms & live. The last thing on my mind is worring about weaning them off. Im confident that when I get them to the size that I want them to be, they will wean themselves off.

At this point with my BIG PBASS I can choose not to feed live anymore and is a whole lot cheaper because they will eat non-live. Reason they are only fed once a week of live.

So overall I'm a big advocate in feeding baby Cichla live and once they get to a decent size wean off to non-live.

Just make sure to treat the feeders.

 

[ado124]

I have a few growout tanks and one tank (20g) houses a few cichla (I think ocell) that only eat live food (guppies, rosies, and blackworms) while I have another tank (90g) that houses azuls and kelbs. The azuls and kelbs are completely on prepared foods (krill, food sticks, frozen bloodworms, cichla gold) and are fed VERY well. They end each meal with a nice plump belly. The ocells in the 20g have OUTGROWN a good number of the azuls (mainly the ones that don't eat pellets) and so I've decided to start giving them live food once a week. Their colors are still amazing BUT their growth rate is considerably slower than the cichla from the same batch as other members who post their pix. None of my cichla have the "Skinny" look where their head is larger than their body, as they are fed very well but I'm becoming more and more convinced that live food is necessary for good growth.

 

[shookONES]

I feed 4-5 days a week with one large feeding late in the day. I've found that keeping the cichla guessing when the next meal will come has turned them into downright voracious eaters. Just another trick I've learned through the last few months of trials and tribulations.

 

[jworth]

mine eat only market shrimp and talapia at this point at 6" and 9" and growth has become terribly slow. i think my orino has grown 2 inches since october. i am going to start getting live a couple times a month to see how that helps whether it be goldies or panfish juvies that i have caught myself.

 

[jworth]

I feed 4-5 days a week with one large feeding late in the day. I've found that keeping the cichla guessing when the next meal will come has turned them into downright voracious eaters. Just another trick I've learned through the last few months of trials and tribulations.

Mine also seem to be very choosy these days and i think that i am going to adopt this style of feeding as opposed to feeding a few times a day with most of it just sitting on the bottom waiting for the dollars or polys to pick them up.

 

[ado124]

mine eat only market shrimp and talapia at this point at 6" and 9" and growth has become terribly slow. i think my orino has grown 2 inches since october. i am going to start getting live a couple times a month to see how that helps whether it be goldies or panfish juvies that i have caught myself.

Panfish make me nervous with their spikes! Anyone use shiners, shad, or other larger baitfish as food?