Validity Of Non-Live/Preparred Foods

[Tongue33]

I think that the different species of fish that have been fed to our fish, have also spoken volumes as far as growth goes..

I have fed many Live Minnows... And Dead minnows... The nutritional value is of course different in a Minnow vs. A goldfish.. Especially when it comes to fat.

I think Without actually doing the experiment you suggest. that there is not a concrete and persuading arguement to contradict your opinion or arguement

So I think you are correct that until a valid; single species fish, live and dead comparison experiment is completed. Then there is No; concrete, factual knowledge of the opinions I have voiced.


I have worked with Minnows..(Chub) last year.. But I really wasn't paying enough attention to gauge the growth rate differences..

I know that there were some smaller and some definately larger. But when you are working with Many at the same time.. You definitely have a few runts...

Spring is comin, and minnows are going to be easier.. Maybe I will run a month or two experiment if no one does first..


Oh and I don't know why I didn't think to do that.. I guess at that point; and still until you just pointed it out, that I really wasn't into that depth of concern on the issue

Now I am, and it will be interesting when we come out with some findings..


Thanks for clarifying My beliefs on being offended have no grounds

And the reason I took the offended side was because the topic is not Live vs dead fish.. it is Validity of Non live/Prepared foods. So My bad

I was going on the Non live prepared in only a few areas namely

Smelt full (head on)
Market Srhimp
Krill
Pellets (NLS/AZOO/Hikari cichlid)
Etc... foods I have used.

Vs.

any and all Live fish I have fed.

The results were conclusive as far as that went.So I thought that was good enough til an hour ago. Mainly due to the fact that the porteins; and other nutritional knowns, of these foods were higher than most of the live fish that are being fed today.

I mean.. Krill for instance has an extremely high Protein content and is accepted as quote: High in nutrition.

Yet live goldfish give higher growth rates with less feeding.

My current speculation is that there is something mentally affecting growth when it comes to live fish vs other foods.

Now my current conclusions aside from single specie experimentation, is similar..

Though Technically we cannot call my (experiments ... experiments.) Though I feel they are valid and do prove within reason, that Prepared foods (examples above) just don't give the same bang for the buck that live fish does.

I will document the next more extensibvely than the previous ones

Which really isn't saying much

Thanks again for clearing up my confusion

 

[channarox]

i would love to try that experiment and have thought many times about it.
live VS dead fish OF THE SAME SPECIES.

my project was to test PREPARED FOODS VS LIVE FISH and not the above.
reason being most people would rather feed prepared foods like dry foods,shrimp etc. and not dead feeders.

one day i will try the above experiment.

 

[chefjamesscott]

I just had the funniest image of you guys on this thread pop into my mind, picture it if you can

A BUNCH OF PREDATORY PEACOCK BASS OF DIFFERENT SPECIES AND AN EMPORER CICHLID ALL IN ONE TANK AND THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS THREAD IS THE FOOD AND YALL ARE HITTING IT WITH HARD STRIKES AND THEN BACKING OFF SAYING TO THE OTHER FISH GO AHEAD BEAT THAT

AHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHA the image in my mind I just wish I could post a pic of it

 

[Tongue33]

That is funny... But it would be funner if your insertion had some content and thought that pertains to the topic. Other than your observation and opinion on those posting their experience and knowledge.

Still It was funny

 

[Tongue33]

Well Today I was feedign Adult live Brine!! Fresh from the Source where ALL the Distributers gets theirs LOL.... Nice to get fresher than the best Brands....

Ya I'm gloating... They loved it

 

[Scatocephalus]

Well Today I was feedign Adult live Brine!! Fresh from the Source where ALL the Distributers gets theirs LOL....

Been out doing some netting?? I need to take a trip out. It really is silly that I don't take more advantage of the GSL. I mean it's only 15 minutes from my house and full of free food!!

A couple weeks ago I threw 50 goldfish into a tank that I have set up outside. It is an algae pit. I forgot all about them and yesterday I remembered they were there. I caught out a dozen or so goldfish. They were incredibly fat, presumably from gorging on algae the past 2 weeks. In any case, the past couple of days I've been catching fat goldfish out and chucking a few here and there into the Cichla. They are loving it and by transference I am feeding my Cichla heavy doses of plant material. I'm going to chuck a hundred more goldfish into the tank and start feeding these fish to the Peas. We'll see in a couple of weeks if it makes any sort of difference.

Maybe I'll add some live BS into the mix... it certainly couldn't hurt!! It might even enhance their colors some more...

 

[Tongue33]

NO DOUBT!! You you are close to the Source!!

No I didn;t go Jeff and Bob went and jeff dropped some by.. Told me there were less this year than previous.. but still early so.. ya..

I guess they didn;t get enough for Bob to even worry about freezing any.. I think a couple five gallon buckets... he brought me a bag that fed everyone of my tanks 3 times !! and I only fed 3 times cause I wasn't prepeared to keep them alive today...

So All my fish are rolling over

 

[High City Rida]

I will chime in on this topic.

I'll give two anecdotal incidences comparing live to dead.

1) I have 2 pinima that I got from Rapps a couple months ago maybe. They both get frozen foods, but 1 of them eats live and the other WILL NOT! The one that eats live is growing much faster and is much more healthy looking. Of course, the one that doesn't eat live doesn't eat as much, but there's a huge difference.

2) Mike (HCR) and I got piquiti from Rich at the same time. At first, I only fed mine one live meal maybe once a week and he fed his feeders all the time.

I feed feeder's 100% to all my Cichla under 6''. At 6'' I then introduce other food's along with live feeder's.

After about a month, his had grown a couple inches and were showing spots whereas mine grew maybe 1/2" and hadn't developed any spots.

I don't try things that have not been proven. The sticky's say feeders all the time so I never tryed to feed them Blood worms or brine or krill. I have a 10g tank that I refill weekly with 100 guppies. The only perticular diffrence with the Azul is I had a brood of Convict's at about 1'' - 2'' that I left in the tank the Azul and the Kelberi are kept in 24/7. So basicly the Cichla had food readily available to them at all time. I did notice that during this period the Cichla ignored the Rosie's and concentrated on the Convict fry exclusivly. So imo tank breed or aquired Cichlids is the choice of food idealy then rosie's then prepaired foods/frozen foods.

Again, his were fed more, but I can't see the difference being attributable to the amount of food exclusively.



I also beleive that there are other factors that I have used that make a huge difference in growth and health overall as I have more experience then PWMIN.

~I think there is a difference, though between frozen foods and pellets. I believe if they are on pellets, they will be more healthy than if they only eat frozen. I try to wean mine off live, but I still like to feed live and probably will continue for life if not once a week. This spring, I am going to catch my own fatheads and crayfish to feed them. As was said, I don't like feeding live because of the conditions feeders are raised and kept in, but I think Cichla are one fish that should get live food.~

True Statement we just think differently about the use of live and pellet's.


...my $0.02 from my limited experience

On my personal feelings I beleive everyone who has contributed to this thread is correct and has shared the experience with there style and choice of foods to feed. I feed all my Cichlids live mainly because I want to reproduce there natural instinct's as much as possiable and that includes hunting need's for the quality of there psychological value. I do gut load my feeders with all Hikari brands and blood worms. I also use massivore on all my Cichlid Fry the entire time during there growth and when feeding them to my Cichla. I also want to say I love this topic as well but it is a touchy topic because when I originally came into keeping Cichla I read that they needed to be on a strict feeder diet. I found that others at the time were looking for alternitive feeding sources.
On my fist batch of Cichla I found this to be sort of difficult due to cost and avalability to healthy feeders. I found myself running out of feeders regularly after they hit the 6'' mark because of the sheer amount of feeders they consume and my inexperience. My advice to all new Cichla keepers is find and stick with a reliable source and you shouldn't have any problems with health or quanity issue's. I have recently starting using massivore with my big boy's and gal's. As R1 stated it is a mess to use and stinks bad enough to kill a small child but it does seem to be the best choice as far as pellet's are concearned imo. I grabbed 2x 2.2lb bags from Johnptc for about $100.00.

I will say this after reading through all the reply's to this thread I didn't really see to much mentioned about the use of shrimp. I use this as my staple for my Cichla during the inbetween stage at 6'' - 10''+. My adult Cichla are mainly feed shrimp. my favorite is Tiger Shrimp and my main choice that I buy in bulk is Texas Raised Gulf Shrimp. I feel that getting your cichla trainned on shrimp is a must to ensure there health and to maintain the fullness they need to continue there growth into adolescence also gives your wallet a break. I also stuff my shrimp with pellet's at this stage for more nutrition and just to introduce them to dry food's not all the tme but occasionally when trainning them onto new option's. But with out a doubt feed your Cichla live at least twice a month imo to obtain optimal growth and health. I know this is a touchy topic for some individule's who completely disagree with me and I have offended them in the past. If you feed your cichla other food alternitive's then live I don't disagree with you I just have never thought pellet's/frozen would ever be able to compete with live food's. And the proof is in the pudding as Tongue has said to me since my beggining in keeping Cichla. Give them what they want that's why there in the family Picesvorious.


I have done the live feeders and frozen feeders as I have lost all the feeders I bought from the store and had to freeze them to feed them to my Cichla later and not let them go to waist because of my neglagence. The Cichla took the frozen feeders with as much enthusiasim as the live feeder's. I have also feed dead feeders exclusivly to a group of Cichla for a month period with no negative result's there were not frozen. Color, health, and over all disposition of these cichla where no different then the Cichla I alway's gave live 100% of the time vs Frozen or deceased rosie's. I in no way am an expert and am fairly new to keeping track of all the off the wall thing's I do but as fate may have it I have experemented with many different feeding option's. I have many breeding Cichlids in my collection to keep a steady supply of fresh food on hand but the appetitie of Cichla is no where near the quanity of fry that I am able to procure with in a month''s time so breeding your own Cichla feeders is a big task that I have yet to master fully to substain them 100% on just personal breeding. I like Joey try to aquire all unwanted Cull's and unwanted fish/Cichlid's and any deals in the frozen section of my local groccery store. I have feed everything from scallops to freshly caught trout to my Cichla and one thing's for sure no matter what it is a healthy Cichla will eat it. I also will note that my Cichla steal Night Crawlers from my Sting Ray on a regular basis but I have noticed that they don't seem to want them enough for me to warant feeding them these on a mass amount. For me Live Guppies/Goldies (Gold Fish) and shrimp are the best main staple for large Healthy Cichla. My biggest Cichla is 22'' so realisticly feeding pellet's is a more then a challanging with 7 16''+ Cichla being feed twice a week. Feeders for me is a must and I feel a required need for there health and nutrition. P.S anyone in my area looking to get rid of any unwanted 8'' + Cichlids call me,pm me anything. I don't discriminate I feed what ever they will take JAg's/JD/RED Devils/Con's/ etc.. And yes African's too.