Validity Of Non-Live/Preparred Foods

[R1_Ridah]

It's definitely one interesting project, and a little difficult for one to do this on his own in real time. Might I suggest a couple people getting together and doing a conjoint study?

I will see if one of my baby Azuls will take Massivore. If so I will separate the tank and just leave two Azuls in there and try the test.

 

[ado124]

R1, that's a very interesting idea for an experiment! I might have to try this out once my cichla get big enough for goldfish.

What would you feed the goldfish though? just flake food?

 

[R1_Ridah]

R1, that's a very interesting idea for an experiment! I might have to try this out once my cichla get big enough for goldfish.

What would you feed the goldfish though? just flake food?

Just live feeders. One Azul will eat 1 massivore pellet, while the other 2 goldfish at every feeding.

 

[Marius]

R1, that's a very interesting idea for an experiment! I might have to try this out once my cichla get big enough for goldfish.

What would you feed the goldfish though? just flake food?

That would be one of the factors in the study, gutloaded feeders BUT with what?!?

Any little detail, to have a more comprehensive result, should have all the variables noted and taken into consideration.

Pellets ...ingredients in them.
Feeders: gutloaded, or not; what food used for feeders; quarantined, dewormed ..or not
Frozen foods, there should be a distinction between fish, krill, worms etc

I am in the middle of my exams, but you guys can put down some variables for each ongoing "study" either in this thread, or make a dedicated one.

 

[X-Tank]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T4D-428FK2P-G&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=759e6045ad3ea7a03aead4c2b4a552f3

You need to pay $30 to read the entire article and result of this study.

Abstract

The effects of food particle size, food type (live or prepared), and feeding frequency, on the growth and survival of Clarias macrocephalus larvae were observed over 13- to 21-day experimental periods. Larvae were reared in glass aquaria and plastic tubs under aerated conditions at water temperatures from 25°C to 29°C. Live food (Artemia of different size ranges) was given to excess on various feeding schedules. Larvae were also fed combinations of live (Artemia) and prepared food; larvae were switched to prepared food on day 6, 11, and 16 after receiving Artemia from the onset of exogenous feeding. Larvae fed Artemia had high growth and survival. Prepared food was acceptable at the start of exogenous feeding but resulted in relatively poor growth and survival. Artemia in the size range from 160 to 315 &#956; are more suitable for C. macrocephalus larvae than sizes <160 &#956;. A schedule of one feeding per day is satisfactory if feeding is in excess. Live food was necessary at the start of exogenous feeding to improve survival. Larvae fed Artemia from the start of exogenous feeding until day 11, followed by prepared food until the end of the experiment, grew significantly faster and had better survival than those fed other food combinations, Artemia, or prepared food alone. The results indicate that simple changes in culture procedures can improve the production of C. macrocephalus larvae.
Larvae should be fed once daily on an excess of Artemia in the size range from 160 to 315 &#956; from first feeding to day 10, followed by prepared food in powder form from day 11 to 21.

 

[X-Tank]

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html

Propaganda.... >.< , but does provide some valuable info about different kind of food source.

 

[channarox]

Do you have space INSIDE the stand? If you can sneak in one or two 10gal tanks, then you're set with the quarantine tanks.

If you feed feeder goldfish all you need is a good air source and daily water changes, no filter, no heater needed. Plus, if you can sneak those 10gal in, then you can deworm, quarantine your feeders and have some piece of mind.

unfortunately the way the cabinet is built,i could fit maybe one 10g in one side only.
but theres other stuff i have to keep in there like the hose,my mealworms and my pedes among other things.
i might try to clear stuff and and fit in a 7.5g or something.
but i wont be able to do daily waterchanges because of my schedule.

 

[channarox]

Do you think by freezing goldfish it will loose some of it's nutrients over time compared to fresh live fish?

I think someone should document a test on Massivore vs Live. Massivore is the only one that had worked for me to really see an increase in growth for my PBASS. Ofcourse I was feeding by the handfuls.

The only reason I don't like it is the freakin "Stank" of an odor it has. In addition when the PBASS craps, it freakn makes a mess on the bottom of the tank and builds up.

The test should consist as follows.
Get two Pbass in the same tank with a divider ofcourse.
Regiment to feed every other day. This way it will give the PBASS adequate time to digest it's food. Feed 1 Massivore Pellet since it advertises 1 = 2 Goldfish and feed the other 2 Live goldfish. Being in the same tank, same water condition however two differen't feedings should be interesting.

Run it's course for at least a couple of months and I think an increase in growth will be seen.

this is very interesting.
i might try this ifi can get my kelberis to take massivore.

 

[ado124]

my azuls would be perfect for this test but I don't have a tank to do it in. They eat all of the above and more =/

 

[Tongue33]

I knew Joey had a lot to say about the subject. I was wondering when he'd chime in. Awesome vids and yes, you can see the intensity and fervor that these fish exhibit when feeding live foods.

I live near Joey and see how he takes in everyone's unwanted fish. I've often wondered if all of these people know that their prized spawn of Malawian cichlids is headed for the dinner plate. Joey's like that guy that takes home the free kittens in front of the grocery store to feed his python. LOL

Really though That's me Well I don't really feed kittens... And my Marissa almost killed Donnie when his buddy did that one day .

But ya.. Everything From Prized Malawians.. To 17" Pacus so far.. Pacus have More meat that any Cichlid I have ever cut up for being too big to feed.

Do you think by freezing goldfish it will loose some of it's nutrients over time compared to fresh live fish?

I think someone should document a test on Massivore vs Live. Massivore is the only one that had worked for me to really see an increase in growth for my PBASS. Ofcourse I was feeding by the handfuls.

The only reason I don't like it is the freakin "Stank" of an odor it has. In addition when the PBASS craps, it freakn makes a mess on the bottom of the tank and builds up.

The test should consist as follows.
Get two Pbass in the same tank with a divider ofcourse.
Regiment to feed every other day. This way it will give the PBASS adequate time to digest it's food. Feed 1 Massivore Pellet since it advertises 1 = 2 Goldfish and feed the other 2 Live goldfish. Being in the same tank, same water condition however two differen't feedings should be interesting.

Run it's course for at least a couple of months and I think an increase in growth will be seen.

That sounds LIke an excellent Experiment for the Latest greatest Pellet/Tablet.

I am way to poor to feed Massivore so this is one for someone else to see

ON the freezing of Goldfish..Or any for that matter. I THINK Not know But I think that if you are going to freeze it you should get a good vitamin addative. I feed Smelt from The local grocer as well.. So I bend the rules on LIVE fish sometimes...

Still I have read that in freezing... Well actually if I remember correctly.. That after a fish or animal dies.. If this is not flash frozen that Quote: Thiaminase activates in the period after death.. end quote.. Now that is not exact words..

But anyway... I think that when the fish dies or is killed for purpose of freezing is Better than buying frozen or even freshly dead from LFS.

As for nutritional value on paper I think there isn;t much lost in freezing. You and I in my opinion KNOW the difference in Nutritional value when it comes to Live fish vs dead fish. Obviously Live fish has a role in more nutrition in my opinion.

One reason being the natural predation or ambush colors that our fish display when the food get;s harder to catch... These colors are in my expeirience and opinion ONLY viewed by those that feed live fish. You just absolutely WILL NOT SEE the Full spectrum of coloration that your Cichla is capable of goign thorugh without Live fish.

We all know that Cichla are have an extreme range when it comes to Vibrant colors that can be experienced.. But only those of us that have fed Live in adult hood see those truly rare colors that come out for specific hunting reasons.

Now if Massivore proves to be as excellent on growth as Live fish.. Then I think the largest benefit when it comes to comparing the two will end up being (Hunting Color) .

Many of my pictures are from right after feeding.. I still get EXTREMELY colorful pics hours and days after a feeding.. BUT They are even better right after a feed. NOw I think I picked up some really good stcok.. But that is only one piece of the puzzle in my opinion.

Here is a quote from Miles Thread that I was involved in that also had a little bit to do with this topic. Hope I have bored everyone yet :0 This is actually one of my favorite topics.. But usually falls on deaf ears due to Belief differences.. So I kinda stay out of it mostly...

I think that is good.. Worms have very high protien content of easily digested protiens for aquatic species.

THOUGH..I think it depends on the fish as well.. I love worms for most CA cichlids for example.. And Grasshoppers too..

But my piscivores I feed fish and aquatic based foods.. And for along time it was guppies then goldfish... Till I got into feeding Piscivores Cichlids.

I have experimented with this some and have found that Worms were and are AWESOME..

Mainly cause they seemed more beneficial... As they stayed in the stomach longer. Took longer to digest.. By a minimum of 4-6 hours longer than the same amount of Guppies or goldfish by volume.

I also fed my worms NLS pellets..

Still this proved to be in efficient when it came to growth.

I foudn that feeding live fish my piscivores grew at about 5 times the pace of feeding worms.

I also did a similar study with Pellets and sticks.

I had some Piscs that readily took those...and in the same tank 2 that would not touch them..

The fish that only ate live fish grew at twice the rate as those that ate pellets then followed with a fish. Stomaches were all the same after feeding..

I did not write any of this down.. But I have had people come over and I have spoken with them about this.. As this is a topic I am invested to as well.

Tug
Itsalmosteasy
Bstuver
CargR

And some other locals that are members here and a bunch of locals that are not.

The two main pellets I used were

NLS
&
Azoo Arow sticks.

Other non live was smelt. The Live eaters would not touch this either..But I have an opinion on the difference of this vs. Live as well

Now I struggled with the first fish I did this with.. They came with a weird fungus and disease I thought I cleared up.. Then one fish Spit up a half eatin smelt and ended all but one of its species in just a few hours..


I like the worm suggestion.. I think however there is soemthing to be said about a more naturally ready available food source for fish such as Piscivores.

So what do you think about this?