Venomous Lizards... anyone else heard this??

[EricIvins]

So you're basing your conclusion on a bite from a lizard, while disagreeing with a study written by someone who holds a Ph.D in Biochemistry and has devoted the majority of his research towards the study of the evolution of venom in reptiles...?

Tell me when/where I made a conclusion on anything.......All you have to do is a simple search on any of the Venomous forums that BGF participates in to see both sides.......I'm not new to this, nor am I stupid or ignorant of the facts......

 

[rudukai13]

Don't read that far into it........

You're disagreeing with the basic premise, suggesting that it's not a true venom, just protiens doing what they're designed to do.

 

[EricIvins]

You're disagreeing with the basic premise, suggesting that it's not a true venom, just protiens doing what they're designed to do.

When that Venom gland becomes fully functional, then it should be considered Venomous. Otherwise, they are, just specialized Protiens floating around in Saliva........

Rear Fanged Snakes are considered Venomous because they have both a specialized Saliva, and a delivery system for it.......That delivery system may not be efficient compared to Front Fanged Snakes, but the delivery system is there.......

 

[rudukai13]

So in your opinion, an animal is only venomous if it has an efficient delivery system for the venom? So that even though the same protiens that make up rattlesnake venom have been discovered to be produced by the rudimentary lower-jaw venom glands of bearded dragons, we shouldn't call beardies venemous cause they just can't inject the venom like snakes can? So by that logic, gila monsters aren't venomous either, right?

The difference to me is that the venoms aren't being produced just as another protien from salivary glands - they're secreted from specific glands on the lower jaw whose only purpose is to create those protiens. While the delivery system might not be the most effective, it is still very much a venom in definition.

 

[ScatMan]

my hand swelled up when i got bit by a dog too and i know they're not venomous.

the exact enzymes or proteins in the saliva/venom need to be identified, isolated and tested to see if they cause the damage.

then the animal needs to be able to deliver it effectively to be considered "venomous" by definition. otherwise they just have toxic spit. (venomous gilas do have an effective delivery system, poisonous toads do not)

let's not forget that even we humans have enzymes in our saliva that breaks down our food, and if injected under our skin, will cause swelling and itching. then again, saline solution or even just the prick from the needle, can have the same effects on people...

 

[coura]

my hand swelled up when i got bit by a dog too and i know they're not venomous.

the exact enzymes or proteins in the saliva/venom need to be identified, isolated and tested to see if they cause the damage.

then the animal needs to be able to deliver it effectively to be considered "venomous" by definition. otherwise they just have toxic spit. (venomous gilas do have an effective delivery system, poisonous toads do not)

let's not forget that even we humans have enzymes in our saliva that breaks down our food, and if injected under our skin, will cause swelling and itching. then again, saline solution or even just the prick from the needle, can have the same effects on people...

EXACLY and gila monsters do indeed have a efficient venom delivery sistem and unlike any kind of bite you will get from a bearded dragon or another smaller lizard except from the mexican beaded lizards.

 

[EricIvins]

So in your opinion, an animal is only venomous if it has an efficient delivery system for the venom? So that even though the same protiens that make up rattlesnake venom have been discovered to be produced by the rudimentary lower-jaw venom glands of bearded dragons, we shouldn't call beardies venemous cause they just can't inject the venom like snakes can? So by that logic, gila monsters aren't venomous either, right?

The difference to me is that the venoms aren't being produced just as another protien from salivary glands - they're secreted from specific glands on the lower jaw whose only purpose is to create those protiens. While the delivery system might not be the most effective, it is still very much a venom in definition.

Any of the Helodermas have a capable delivery system, as stated.......

The point is, unless something new has come to light, that these animals may have the defunct gland to do it, but no delivery system what so ever............How does that help the animal? Most Snakes have vestigial hind limbs, so now Snakes have back legs? About as functional right?

 

[rudukai13]

That's a good point.

 

[Reptilesfishbirdsmammals]

what i just read from the questioner is totally false

 

[A. gigas]

i have heard this, but i guess i really don't believe it. the only lizards i know to have venom are the gila monster and the mexican beaded lizard.