Vote NOW!! What Geo you say this is?!!?
- Thread starter AquataHolic420
- Start date
Altifrons all the way! Surinamensis are the number one Geo most misidentified. Surinamensis have a much larger spot on their sides, as well as other characteristics. I have two altifrons that are pushing seven inches. I got them at three inches and they looked just like yours do.
WARNING: RANT ALERT......
I'm not sure what it is, and I have one that looks just like it. They are often sold as surinamensis, but there are several species in that 'complex' that look very much alike. also, it is often reported that true surinamensis have not been exported at all recently.
HERE IS WHAT BUGS ME ABOUT THESE THREADS (yes I'm shouting):
Someone posts a pic and asks what fish it is. Then there will be several replies such as: it's species A. Someone else will respond: yes, It's species A. Then someone else says: No, i'm sure it's species B. And it goes on.
NO ONE EVER GIVES A REASON WHY??? PLEASE - if you are so sure about it, share your knowledge with everyone. In this thread, by my count, there were 6 'IDs' and only one person gave anything to back it up (andrewtfw). I collect geos and I would really like to know from someone that can tell me in a detailed fashion the differences between surinamensis. altifrons, megasema, dicrozoster, proximus, abalios, and brachybranchus. All of these fish look very similar, and there are several other obscure ones I've left out. I believe that to tell the difference, you'd need to know scale and ray counts from various parts of the specimen and perhaps the collection location too. Add to this the fact that when someone posts a pic, we have no idea of the age of the fish - the fish in this complex do change in appearance, even after 1 year of age. And what about mood or health? The size and color of that black spot changes with mood. Overall color varies with health and age.
Finally what about the genetics of the fish - hybrids anyone?
So my rant is over and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. oh wait - do I get to vote? Barack Obama - there, that's my vote.
windsurfer.....
I'm not sure what it is, and I have one that looks just like it. They are often sold as surinamensis, but there are several species in that 'complex' that look very much alike. also, it is often reported that true surinamensis have not been exported at all recently.
HERE IS WHAT BUGS ME ABOUT THESE THREADS (yes I'm shouting):
Someone posts a pic and asks what fish it is. Then there will be several replies such as: it's species A. Someone else will respond: yes, It's species A. Then someone else says: No, i'm sure it's species B. And it goes on.
NO ONE EVER GIVES A REASON WHY??? PLEASE - if you are so sure about it, share your knowledge with everyone. In this thread, by my count, there were 6 'IDs' and only one person gave anything to back it up (andrewtfw). I collect geos and I would really like to know from someone that can tell me in a detailed fashion the differences between surinamensis. altifrons, megasema, dicrozoster, proximus, abalios, and brachybranchus. All of these fish look very similar, and there are several other obscure ones I've left out. I believe that to tell the difference, you'd need to know scale and ray counts from various parts of the specimen and perhaps the collection location too. Add to this the fact that when someone posts a pic, we have no idea of the age of the fish - the fish in this complex do change in appearance, even after 1 year of age. And what about mood or health? The size and color of that black spot changes with mood. Overall color varies with health and age.
Finally what about the genetics of the fish - hybrids anyone?
So my rant is over and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. oh wait - do I get to vote? Barack Obama - there, that's my vote.
windsurfer.....
Heres a kind of crappy site for the Geo's but has a lot of nice pictures of various species, including some you mentioned...
http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/Gallerie/Cichliden/INDEX.HTM
Thanks for the ranting, i just wish u thru a guess at the Geo in there instead of polotics...
Also what do you think of the above Surinamensis someone else posted??
http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/Gallerie/Cichliden/INDEX.HTM
Thanks for the ranting, i just wish u thru a guess at the Geo in there instead of polotics...
Also what do you think of the above Surinamensis someone else posted??
aquaholic420, thanks for listening dude. it felt good to get that out of me!
i don't think it's politics at all, though - quite the opposite, everyone else here is lobbying for their 'opinion' of what the fish is. i'm interested in science.
first off, I will say that it's not surinamensis. It does look like pictures that we see of surinamensis, but according to Wayne Leibel, true surinamensis have never been imported to the US! Unfortunately, the surinamensis label is applied to every one of the fish in this complex by most distributors and LFS's (and a lot of people that make websites).
I think that altifrons is a really good guess. My second guess would be proximus and a third would be abalios.
Now, you say that the fish in your last pic looks 'slightly different' and is smaller than the others, so you may or may not have yet another species there. Impossible to tell from the pic provided and may not be old enough to positively id with the information that we have.
Next, consider this. The fish in this 'complex' have been reclassified several times. It's entirely possible that two fish we now call abalios, for example, but collected from two different locations will be split into two new species - so that one is an abalios, but the other one has a new name. This has happened with festivums. Used to be one species - now, according to Kullander, I believe that it's seven! And they all look very much alike to me. People are sick of hearing about hybrids, but if someones gotten festivums from several different sources and bred them, it's entirely possible that they are hybrids! This splitting will be happening with the geo. brasiliensis in the near future.
All of this has made me very careful about where I get my breeding stock, and what I breed with what.
Sorry if I'm being way too analytical and ruining the fun, but in my twisted mind, this is the fun part!
One thing I know for sure. These fish are supercool, and I'm not done with them yet!
thanks and peace,
windsurfer
i don't think it's politics at all, though - quite the opposite, everyone else here is lobbying for their 'opinion' of what the fish is. i'm interested in science.
first off, I will say that it's not surinamensis. It does look like pictures that we see of surinamensis, but according to Wayne Leibel, true surinamensis have never been imported to the US! Unfortunately, the surinamensis label is applied to every one of the fish in this complex by most distributors and LFS's (and a lot of people that make websites).
I think that altifrons is a really good guess. My second guess would be proximus and a third would be abalios.
Now, you say that the fish in your last pic looks 'slightly different' and is smaller than the others, so you may or may not have yet another species there. Impossible to tell from the pic provided and may not be old enough to positively id with the information that we have.
Next, consider this. The fish in this 'complex' have been reclassified several times. It's entirely possible that two fish we now call abalios, for example, but collected from two different locations will be split into two new species - so that one is an abalios, but the other one has a new name. This has happened with festivums. Used to be one species - now, according to Kullander, I believe that it's seven! And they all look very much alike to me. People are sick of hearing about hybrids, but if someones gotten festivums from several different sources and bred them, it's entirely possible that they are hybrids! This splitting will be happening with the geo. brasiliensis in the near future.
All of this has made me very careful about where I get my breeding stock, and what I breed with what.
Sorry if I'm being way too analytical and ruining the fun, but in my twisted mind, this is the fun part!
One thing I know for sure. These fish are supercool, and I'm not done with them yet!
thanks and peace,
windsurfer
windsurfer;774131; said:aquaholic420, thanks for listening dude. it felt good to get that out of me!
i don't think it's politics at all, though - quite the opposite, everyone else here is lobbying for their 'opinion' of what the fish is. i'm interested in science.
first off, I will say that it's not surinamensis. It does look like pictures that we see of surinamensis, but according to Wayne Leibel, true surinamensis have never been imported to the US! Unfortunately, the surinamensis label is applied to every one of the fish in this complex by most distributors and LFS's (and a lot of people that make websites).
I think that altifrons is a really good guess. My second guess would be proximus and a third would be abalios.
Now, you say that the fish in your last pic looks 'slightly different' and is smaller than the others, so you may or may not have yet another species there. Impossible to tell from the pic provided and may not be old enough to positively id with the information that we have.
Next, consider this. The fish in this 'complex' have been reclassified several times. It's entirely possible that two fish we now call abalios, for example, but collected from two different locations will be split into two new species - so that one is an abalios, but the other one has a new name. This has happened with festivums. Used to be one species - now, according to Kullander, I believe that it's seven! And they all look very much alike to me. People are sick of hearing about hybrids, but if someones gotten festivums from several different sources and bred them, it's entirely possible that they are hybrids! This splitting will be happening with the geo. brasiliensis in the near future.
All of this has made me very careful about where I get my breeding stock, and what I breed with what.
Sorry if I'm being way too analytical and ruining the fun, but in my twisted mind, this is the fun part!
One thing I know for sure. These fish are supercool, and I'm not done with them yet!
thanks and peace,
windsurfer
I meant its politics because of your Obama vote, thats all...
Also i was wondering what species you thought Rallysman Geo was.
Mine DEF could be a hybrid, but who knows...
Also just cuz they havent been DOCUMENTED as being imported does not mean they have never made there way in this Country. Look at Asian Aro's for an example... they make their way over here and they arent allowed right now... and other species that arent supposed to be imported do get here too...
But yea have a good one, lets see the newest debate. Post some pics of your Geos...
Josh
