W/D vs Sump

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Reminds me of Jeds thoughts, read post #95

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110479&highlight=pima&page=5


Can you explain why? Wet-dry has much more bio surface than other filtration systems like cannister. Would you do a overhead filtration system or a biotower? Or more like 10 big cannisters ?
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In the begining when I first started stocking my tank I only had the wet dry system and I would still get bad water readings. Ammonia and other crap and my tank wasn't even half as stocked as my tank now. I then started to raise the water level of my sump and started adding other media in the sump like ceramic rings. I started to notice my water getting better and better. The best result was when I completely submerged my bioballs and had ceramic rings and lava rocks. I think the submerged media works a lot better than the wet dry filtration. Whenever I read Japanese magazines and see how they have their tanks packed like crazy I always wonder what kind of filter they have. All their tanks have a huge sump full of ceramic rings. Never have I ever seen a wet dry system. The pictures in the the Japanese magazine spoke the truth. I tried it out and I'm a believer. Not trying to bash the wet dry system but in my honest opinion it's inferior to submerged porous media. I had first hand experience.
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Dr Joe;1512612; said:
For F/W or S/W?
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Both but mostly used when I am worried about sump getting enough oxygen (slower flow rates) or I want to maximise media usage (wxpensive media or chemical filtration emphasis). Having a flushing sump pushes old stale air out and ensures all the media is used, reducing channeling. As a side issue it can also be used to create a surge/wave too.

Back to the thread, the reason you will get different and conflicting advice is because the best filtration depends on your individual needs. If there were one clearly superior filter then thats what everyone would be selling/using/making. If you do use a sump, dont use wet/dry media and do use nylon bags so its easier to remove and clean the media. If your concerned about nitrogenous converstion rates/speeds then Fluid Sand filters are a much cheaper more compact form of sump for what its worth.
 
Its hard to gauge whats better bio-wise. Bacteria will only colonize as much as there is food (ammonia, nitrite). So if you build a 10' tall bio tower its not going to work any better or have any more bacteria in it than a 2' tall one if the two foot tall one sufficed for the current bio load. Most folks have much larger amount of bio filtration then needed, which is good measure. Its only when ones filtration is inadequate, that there is a difference really.
 
Lets say you have a three drawer sterilite bio-tower with all three drawers full of media.

Would there be any advantages or disadvantages to having the level in the sump completely submerging the bottom drawer?

Therefor having the top two drawers acting as a wet/dry and the bottom as a sump?

One advantage I can see is a greater water capacity in the sump.

Thoughts?
 
before i moved to japan i only used w/d's and canisters. after seeing, alot of their submerged set-ups and the conditions of their fish i was convinced that they were obviously doing something right. so now i use both..lol. either 50/50 in the sump, or w/d sump and submerged OHF
 
If your going to run submerged media then I don't see the advantage..over cannisters and other closed systems of running a wet sump.

Sure the japanese system works for grossly overstocked tanks..but only because it provides the necessary space for enough BB. As I already tryed to explain you only have as much as the fish load can support. In order to equil the ammount of serface area for BB in a wet sump you would need a wet/dry bio-tower at least a foot around and 8 feet tall. Your still comparing apples to oranges.

Admire the possibility of keeping that many fish alive in vastly overcrowded tanks if you like but personally I'll stick with much saner stocking levels.

One last note....if any change in filtration improves your water peramitors then your former system was improperly set up.
 
Wolf3101;1515023; said:
If your going to run submerged media then I don't see the advantage..over cannisters and other closed systems of running a wet sump.

Sure the japanese system works for grossly overstocked tanks..but only because it provides the necessary space for enough BB. As I already tryed to explain you only have as much as the fish load can support. In order to equil the ammount of serface area for BB in a wet sump you would need a wet/dry bio-tower at least a foot around and 8 feet tall. Your still comparing apples to oranges.

Admire the possibility of keeping that many fish alive in vastly overcrowded tanks if you like but personally I'll stick with much saner stocking levels.

One last note....if any change in filtration improves your water peramitors then your former system was improperly set up.
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Well i think i understand that there are just improper ways of setting up with w/d so i think i'm going with my multi-compartment design with a lot of mechanical at the beggining, scrubbies middle and ceramics/super bio media at the end.

Thanks, and i hope this has been informative to more then me!
 
Wolf3101;1515023; said:
If your going to run submerged media then I don't see the advantage..over cannisters and other closed systems of running a wet sump.
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I run completely submerged media for my sump and I disagree with you whole heartidly there. For one, the media in mine is basically 'extra'. I am confident I have enough uptake by plants as well as more surface area in the tank than I need.

But you dont see any advantages to a submerged sump compared to canister? How about maintaining constant water level in the tank, getting lots of equipment out of the tank (heaters, probes, reactors, etc. - most can be made inline, but thats additional work and cost) providing easy access to add stuff to the water (meds, ferts) or take water samples without getting into the tank, extra oxygenation due to overflows, a lot more water volume in the system, easy to implement auto top offs or auto water change, etc... there are many advantages to a sump. I dont run wet/dry since I dont want to off gas any more co2 than I need to since I run pressurized co2 into the tank. But I really like the sump setup and probably will have a sump on any future tank I can.

And 'crowded' depends on the setup. Some (like loaches for example) like to be crowded. Its pretty common to see them piled up and I am sure they would appreciate as many of their kind as your system could support.
 
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