I'm preparing to make some waves at the local petstore I work at. If you vote on the third option, please explain.
Walnut litter: Good or Bad?
- Thread starter Ophiuchus
- Start date
Its HORRIBLE. First of all, its FUGLY.
Second, its not natural. By natural I dont mean something that theyd find in the wild, I mean something they can USE. They cant dig, cant eat it, cant do anything. Substrates like soil, leaf litter, aspen, etc allow for natural behaviors, therefore less stress and a more stimulated animal IMO. Plus, if they eat it, possibly lights out. Usually Id say 'healthy animals can pass a doorknob'. Nu-uh.
Last, its UNSAFE. I used it for several months, and it literally rubbed my beardies feet RAW. Beardie scales are supposed to be spiky right? Well, mine isnt anymore. Might as well keep them on broken glass. Sadly, I was about 9 at the time and let it go to the point it was painful for him to walk. 6 years later I still have him and its since healed and looks *almost* normal, but it caused him a hell of a lot of pain.
I won't even mention calci-sand. You dont wanna know what that did to him. From the frying pan and into the fire...
Second, its not natural. By natural I dont mean something that theyd find in the wild, I mean something they can USE. They cant dig, cant eat it, cant do anything. Substrates like soil, leaf litter, aspen, etc allow for natural behaviors, therefore less stress and a more stimulated animal IMO. Plus, if they eat it, possibly lights out. Usually Id say 'healthy animals can pass a doorknob'. Nu-uh.
Last, its UNSAFE. I used it for several months, and it literally rubbed my beardies feet RAW. Beardie scales are supposed to be spiky right? Well, mine isnt anymore. Might as well keep them on broken glass. Sadly, I was about 9 at the time and let it go to the point it was painful for him to walk. 6 years later I still have him and its since healed and looks *almost* normal, but it caused him a hell of a lot of pain.
I won't even mention calci-sand. You dont wanna know what that did to him. From the frying pan and into the fire...
I've heard enough bad things about how it will rip apart an animal's insides. I've never had that happen, and my corn snake was on it for a while (I was at college and my mom was taking care of the animals). What made me realize right off that it wasn't a good substrate was that it rots so easily...the snake would spill a little water in the evening and there would be a big moldy spot in the morning.
I'm sure he ingested a little, but he never showed any signs of internal damage. It's not something I'd want to take a chance with though.
I'm sure he ingested a little, but he never showed any signs of internal damage. It's not something I'd want to take a chance with though.
My first snake, a corn, was on large wood chips, YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
I agree with the mold too, forgot about that. That was a huge problem.
There are so many heavily marketed reptile supplies that are just plain CRAP. Some worse than others. But pretty much the whole point of pet stores is to sell you an overly expensive, unhealthy animal to an unsuspecting costumer. Then they sell you the overpriced supplies that they KNOW will kill it, then you coming whining back to them with a dead animal thats 'defective', you buy another, they make $$$ and they are very good at it.
Sorry didnt mean to use 2nd person view in that, but whatever you get the point. The pet industry isnt a nice place.
I agree with the mold too, forgot about that. That was a huge problem.
There are so many heavily marketed reptile supplies that are just plain CRAP. Some worse than others. But pretty much the whole point of pet stores is to sell you an overly expensive, unhealthy animal to an unsuspecting costumer. Then they sell you the overpriced supplies that they KNOW will kill it, then you coming whining back to them with a dead animal thats 'defective', you buy another, they make $$$ and they are very good at it.
Sorry didnt mean to use 2nd person view in that, but whatever you get the point. The pet industry isnt a nice place.
walnut isn't a wood. It's a nut. At least in the sense that that's what this substrate is made out of (crushed English walnut shells to be precise). And two, with any reptile substrate it can work great under certain circumstances, you just have to know when to use it. Loco, you seem to have waged war against every substrate for reptiles that there is, not to mention the entire pet industry. I'm curious as to what exactly they did to you? I'm an LFS employee, have been for 6 or so years, and while I realize that many (most?) stores' employees aren't qualified enough to hold, let alone sell, a reptile, there are plenty of places that make an honest attempt to inform the customer as much as they can, inasmuch as the customer is willing to be educated.
And I've rarely been to pet stores where your money is the only consideration in making a sale. They may spread ignorance, they may tell you everything wrong, but unfortunately this is more often due to employee carelessness and improper training than some nationwide pet store conspiracy to take your money. That said, pet stores have far more to gain from an educated customer with happy healthy reptiles than they do from someone who buys a herp totally unprepared and has it die in the next six months, because they usually do not return to the hobby. Your 'model' of pet stores only ends up in closed businesses, I've seen it year after year. So maybe before you attack the entire industry at any opportunity based on whatever questionable experiences you've had at your local petco, you could reword your statements so they are not generalized, inaccurate attacks.
Anywho, as for walnut bedding I will say I have used it at work off and on with 6" and up beardies for several years with no problems (no 'rubbing raw' of the feet noticed). I used the fine stuff (esu, now rzilla, makes it) and I never (talking in years here) had impaction issues. I also used it since about 1999 with my own fat albino leopard gecko, again not a single problem noticed other than it smells badly if you don't change it for more than 3 weeks or so (even with thorough spot cleaning). So I don't believe it's as horrible as some would say, but I will say it is extremely limited in application. The only upside is its relatively cheap and easy to clean and replace, and it clumps like cat litter. Wow, this is getting long, but in summary I will say while I don't particularly care for this stuff as a substrate I also hate to see people blame it and all kinds of other substrates (rather, perhaps, than careless husbandry) for all of their reptile's health problems. I'd like to see veterinary diagnoses supporting that and until that happens I remain skeptical.
And I've rarely been to pet stores where your money is the only consideration in making a sale. They may spread ignorance, they may tell you everything wrong, but unfortunately this is more often due to employee carelessness and improper training than some nationwide pet store conspiracy to take your money. That said, pet stores have far more to gain from an educated customer with happy healthy reptiles than they do from someone who buys a herp totally unprepared and has it die in the next six months, because they usually do not return to the hobby. Your 'model' of pet stores only ends up in closed businesses, I've seen it year after year. So maybe before you attack the entire industry at any opportunity based on whatever questionable experiences you've had at your local petco, you could reword your statements so they are not generalized, inaccurate attacks.
Anywho, as for walnut bedding I will say I have used it at work off and on with 6" and up beardies for several years with no problems (no 'rubbing raw' of the feet noticed). I used the fine stuff (esu, now rzilla, makes it) and I never (talking in years here) had impaction issues. I also used it since about 1999 with my own fat albino leopard gecko, again not a single problem noticed other than it smells badly if you don't change it for more than 3 weeks or so (even with thorough spot cleaning). So I don't believe it's as horrible as some would say, but I will say it is extremely limited in application. The only upside is its relatively cheap and easy to clean and replace, and it clumps like cat litter. Wow, this is getting long, but in summary I will say while I don't particularly care for this stuff as a substrate I also hate to see people blame it and all kinds of other substrates (rather, perhaps, than careless husbandry) for all of their reptile's health problems. I'd like to see veterinary diagnoses supporting that and until that happens I remain skeptical.
Just because you work at an LFS doesnt mean yours is the only good one. There are hundreds of pet stores that are excellent. But the hue overwhelming vast majority are chains lik petco, petsmart, and petland.
Quote from me earilier in the thread. "Substrates like soil, leaf litter, aspen, etc allow for natural behaviors, therefore less stress and a more stimulated animal" There are MANY great substrates. But the general public believes the pet store knows everything. Petco DOES sell a few actually useful items but they are few and far between. Aspen, leaf litter, cypress, paper towels/newspaper, play sand, SOIL, decomposed granite, gravel.... It all depends on what youre keeping it on. A corn snake is obviously not going to do well with gravel, but aspen allows burrowing and natural behaviors and is easier to clean. But there are universal BAD SUBSTRATES and walnut shells are one of them. You could include reptile carpet, and reptile bark in there. The point of substrate is for the animal to USE IT!
I dont have a problem agaisnt the pet industry, it just needs some SERIOUS fixing up.
If you want to use it, go ahead. Just know what happened to mine. If you dont want to take the warning, thats your problem. That, or you have a magic bearded dragon.
Quote from me earilier in the thread. "Substrates like soil, leaf litter, aspen, etc allow for natural behaviors, therefore less stress and a more stimulated animal" There are MANY great substrates. But the general public believes the pet store knows everything. Petco DOES sell a few actually useful items but they are few and far between. Aspen, leaf litter, cypress, paper towels/newspaper, play sand, SOIL, decomposed granite, gravel.... It all depends on what youre keeping it on. A corn snake is obviously not going to do well with gravel, but aspen allows burrowing and natural behaviors and is easier to clean. But there are universal BAD SUBSTRATES and walnut shells are one of them. You could include reptile carpet, and reptile bark in there. The point of substrate is for the animal to USE IT!
I dont have a problem agaisnt the pet industry, it just needs some SERIOUS fixing up.
If you want to use it, go ahead. Just know what happened to mine. If you dont want to take the warning, thats your problem. That, or you have a magic bearded dragon.
