want to start a...

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Dear oh dear, going to attack our method of animal keeping are we? Well, who says, You 'canadians' have any less time than us, for a start. We are not any better or worse off than you, so really, slagging the way we keep animals is not going down well with me. Tbh, keeping reptiles captive in its own is unjust and cruel, no matter where you are from. So its not one to get into really, there is no eveidence to suggest we are more cruel to them than you are. :)
Oh btw, thats interesting about your vivs !
 
Ah, I didn't realize you were from England. Sorry! I thought you were an American. Sure taught me to look at the location field more often.

The best kept community vivariums I have seen are in countries where labour laws limit shifts to 8 working hours a day. Here in North America, it is about 12 or 14 hours, or sometimes more.

Over here, we just have a different opinion about herp-keeping, and that is maintaining a species tank rather than a community tank.

I have to admit, I do want a community vivarium -- but I don't make enough to work part-time so I can give the herps the attention they need on a daily basis. Also, it is kinda of a social taboo where I live to work part-time if you are capable of working overtime during a full-time job. So, when I am not in school -- I am out there putting out 12 hours a day -- sometimes I go out into the field and not come back for a month.
 
Actually, come to england, you will suprised.. you wont find many who agree with keeping even one or more animals (let alone different species) in the same set up (unless of course its the like oh tree frogs that are together anyway) lol
Thats a new lease to think about, its not lies neither! lol
 
Well, I wasn't attempting to attack anyone personally, even though I know it comes across this way. I just merely respond to each person's comment one-on-one at a time, and I suppose it seems like I'm targeting that person specifically. I'm also aware that my personality doesn't help. I generally don't like having to spout off all the experience I have just to prove my knowledge on these matters. In regards to my harsh approach to hot issues like this, I'm probably not going to change. I worked in petstores for over 8 years, and I hate suger-coating my advice to the layman. I've found that while it sometimes hurts feelings, it usually succeeds in driving my points home. And I'm human and I get really passionate about some of these issues, especially when I think that someone is totally disregarding good advice (whether it came from me or not). So my advice to everyone in the future is to take my comments at face-value; try to look past my demeanor and focus on the points I present.

Having said that, I understand that everyone has an opinion, and its very rare for any two people to share the same one. Perhaps thats why the world is in such a sad state...but that's definitely another topic. Despite my emotions, I try my darndest to keep an open and objective mind. Whenever I voice a strong opinion about something, I try to back it up with facts and my own experiences...not just basing it solely on my feelings. So I resent it when people accuse me of talking out of my ass, etc, because I do my best to keep up with all current information dealing with herps, and although I'm still relatively young (25, in case there was any doubt), I've witnessed and experienced a lot, not just in my own animals but with others' as well.

Jessica, when you made this comment...

I will not read that thread, because im on this one and on many other websites, and it doesnt interest me

...it really frustrated me because it gave me the impression that you thought you knew it all and that you "have that kind of snotty/head up your backside attitude that see's nothing wrong in what they do." I really feel that you couldv'e at least honored my request to look at that thread and then give your opinion of it. In my opinion, a person can never learn too much and that as cliche as it is "reading is knowledge and knowledge is power." Whenever I find myself in a position similar to yours and someone challenges me to look at something, I do it. Because even though it may turn out that I was wrong and (Godforbid) I have to admit it, I'll at least have learned something new and become that much more knowledgeable on the subject.

That's what really gets me fired up. And of course, when someone is genuinely aware of all the facts and still disregards it for their own gratification (like Large_cichlids), then that's just stupid, and I hate stupidity.
 
'Well, I wasn't attempting to attack anyone personally, even though I know it comes across this way. I just merely respond to each person's comment one-on-one at a time, and I suppose it seems like I'm targeting that person specifically. I'm also aware that my personality doesn't help. I generally don't like having to spout off all the experience I have just to prove my knowledge on these matters. In regards to my harsh approach to hot issues like this, I'm probably not going to change. I worked in petstores for over 8 years, and I hate suger-coating my advice to the layman. I've found that while it sometimes hurts feelings, it usually succeeds in driving my points home. And I'm human and I get really passionate about some of these issues, especially when I think that someone is totally disregarding good advice (whether it came from me or not). So my advice to everyone in the future is to take my comments at face-value; try to look past my demeanor and focus on the points I present.'

Sorry but working in buisness mate, I have only one thing to say. YOU SHOULD NO BETTER. You should be better at handling/talking AND COMMUNICATING to people and you should know (As a customer to pet shops myself) that people arent gonna take crap off you whilst paying you, and I know, if I some one working in a pet shop gave me grief for coming out and admitting my mistakes and needing advice, that I would NOT (I repeat.. NOT) WANT to, niether put into practise, listening to you, nor would most other people. The undoubtadly best way to talk to people is to talk to them the way you would want to be talked to yourself, and since you 'care' so much about these animals, hopefully you can realise/admit your mistake and learn from it, doing a much better job at getting people to care for their animals better.

'Having said that, I understand that everyone has an opinion, and its very rare for any two people to share the same one. Perhaps thats why the world is in such a sad state...but that's definitely another topic. Despite my emotions, I try my darndest to keep an open and objective mind. Whenever I voice a strong opinion about something, I try to back it up with facts and my own experiences...not just basing it solely on my feelings. So I resent it when people accuse me of talking out of my ass, etc, because I do my best to keep up with all current information dealing with herps, and although I'm still relatively young (25, in case there was any doubt), I've witnessed and experienced a lot, not just in my own animals but with others' as well.'

OK well in all fairness this proves my point of 'head up their ass'
You may well know alot and have worked in a pet shop, and well done to you if you have gained vaulable knowledge that none of us could (the way its coming across).. No, seriously, well done, but that is NO GOOD AT ALL if you think you are ALWAYS RIGHT and NEVER MAKE MISTAKES and ARE NOT OPEN TO CRITISIM. Maybe thats where me and you differ, I take critisim and being wrong much better. No, infact, I actually take it.

'Jessica, when you made this comment...


Quote:
I will not read that thread, because im on this one and on many other websites, and it doesnt interest me
...it really frustrated me because it gave me the impression that you thought you knew it all and that you "have that kind of snotty/head up your backside attitude that see's nothing wrong in what they do." I really feel that you couldv'e at least honored my request to look at that thread and then give your opinion of it. In my opinion, a person can never learn too much and that as cliche as it is "reading is knowledge and knowledge is power." Whenever I find myself in a position similar to yours and someone challenges me to look at something, I do it. Because even though it may turn out that I was wrong and (Godforbid) I have to admit it, I'll at least have learned something new and become that much more knowledgeable on the subject.

That's what really gets me fired up. And of course, when someone is genuinely aware of all the facts and still disregards it for their own gratification (like Large_cichlids), then that's just stupid, and I hate stupidity' '

Oh dear, too much in the mind here I fear I might not type it all.
Lets start with me not looking at the thread. Ok, you are right, I could have looked at it, fair enough. But if you had ASKED ME, IN A HUMANE WAY to look at your thread/post and not TOLD ME LIKE I'M A SCHOOL CHILD then I may have took to it better and had a look. EG: COMMUNICATING PROPER = GETTING BETTER OUTCOMES AND PEOPLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT. This is where your communicating skills wont give you the justice you deserve for working in a pet shop and knowing more (as you think you do, because of this!) than us. If were a good communicator, you quite simply, would have got respect straight away. I hope you will acknowledge this.

'In my opinion, a person can never learn too much and that as cliche as it is "reading is knowledge and knowledge is power." '

Oh dear, you need to take a page out of your own book dear, you STILL have not grasped the context you are not above me and therefore still have things to learn.

'Whenever I find myself in a position similar to yours and someone challenges me to look at something, I do it. Because even though it may turn out that I was wrong and (Godforbid) I have to admit it, I'll at least have learned something new and become that much more knowledgeable on the subject.'

Deary me, you are firing me up on your post. Because, I enjoy chatting and discussing with those knowledgable, but I soppose I could never have time for somebody so hypercritical to say the least. Dear, the only reason you rise to a 'challenge' is to get your head even higher than the rest of us, to prove somebody wrong, and to generally, try and make a tit out of the rest of us. Well you have met your new challenge here, I dont kindly to people who think they are higher than me at all, and who, quite frankly, dont give a ****. Even admitting yourself that you would not want to admit you are wrong, questions the fact that you ever have/will. This again is a KEY communication and learning skill, and I'm sorry to say you are not a reptile keeper till you can do either of the above mentioned. It makes me wonder how popular you were with enquiring customers, as I know I would never reccomend the shop you worked in to my friends, if you had reacted this way to me in person. I think, deep down you have great knowledge, but your total lack of communication or even hospitality to people, prevents this from being reconised, and I doubt you ever will change your ways, which is a shame, because MORE people could have the chance to learn more about their pets that they keep.

'I'll at least have learned something new and become that much more knowledgeable on the subject.'

Give it up. You will NEVER admit you have nor have had ANYTHING to learn, and are in any way at fault.

'That's what really gets me fired up. And of course, when someone is genuinely aware of all the facts and still disregards it for their own gratification (like Large_cichlids), then that's just stupid, and I hate stupidity.'

That was made at more than one person wasnt it?
Well all i have to say to that is you are pathetic my son. If you are so high and mighty, you might have pity on those surcome to stupidity. And calling me and others (and more over, getting personal) is going to get you even more unpopular. Tell you what, if your really not after an argument, leave it at that, and come back when your ready to talk to me like I am a human being, that is NOT below you, and is not any less worth than you, because if you dont my next post will not be a nice one. You may not mean to come across this way, but you have acknowlegded I strongly feel this way and, more over, do not care, so I dont have any time to parcitipate in any more conversations/discussions with you, until you feel it will get you some where in life to be at least approachable in this term. Like I said, I do not doubt IN ANY WAY you do not have great knowledge so take and relish that compliment, but your communication sucks. And without that, how are you going to pass that knowledge on? Think about it hun. That is the only real stupidity here. ;)
 
Sorry, I wasn't clear earlier...during my employment as a petstore clerk, the alleged "dark side" many of you witness on this forum was not shown on the clock. My point was that during my many encounters with customers, the happy, suger-coating method that upper management encouraged so much often failed to make the customers see the errors of their ways...but hey, it doesn't matter if their pets die, as long as the customers feel all warm and fuzzy right?

So after years of having to doing things the "nice and polite" way (which rarely proved effective), I pulled off the smiling face and simply call things how I see them. I know its not the Golden Rule, but when people start acting rude and immature with me, I'll stoop to their level and return the fire.

Manners aside, I never said that I know everything, and that I'm incapable of learning more. Nor did I ever say that I know more than anyone else. You're making that assumption simply because I happen to disagree with you.

[Oh darn...you're really not good at this sarcasm thing, are you? I just realized that you must have misinterpreted the "godforbid" bit. Once more, it was sarcasm.] To be quite honest, that's probably how I've learned half of what I know thus far; someone else proved me wrong at something, and I had to eat my hat.

Like I said, I've never claimed to be an expert at anything. I'm not going to be drawn into a pissing contest to see who knows more, or who has had more experience, or whatever. That appears to be what you want because you're so insistent on proving that you know more than me. That may indeed be the case, and it may not; I could care less. I know lots of herpers that are far more experienced and knowledgeable than I, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I can take criticism; but if someone says I'm wrong, they better be able to prove it. (BTW, no one has yet to address or give adequate evidence that personal curiousity is grounds for compromising the well-being of their pets..[shrugs])

I'm not going to post my resume or anything on this site, because it really doesn't matter. But if someone makes a statement or gives an opinion without any substantial evidence to back it up, I will call them out on it.

I never called you stupid, Jess, or thought that you knew nothing about reptiles. Up until the point where you made it adamant that you didn't want to learn anything new, I had no ill perceptions of your knowledge because you were just simply stating your opinion. When you made the statement that you wouldn't read that thread, and gave your reasons for that decision, that's when my opinion of you declined (which IMO made you more human in my eyes, not less).

Unless you want to get back to the topic of mixing herps, then please direct any further bantor to a PM. Or feel free to email me at: MDCLeviathan@gmail.com or you might even catch me on AIM with the screenname of "mdckcobra"
 
'I'm not going to be drawn into a pissing contest to see who knows more, or who has had more experience, or whatever. That appears to be what you want because you're so insistent on proving that you know more than me. That may indeed be the case, and it may not; I could care less. I know lots of herpers that are far more experienced and knowledgeable than I.'

Love, I have not once stated how high my knowledge is, or anything of the sort, where as you have, eg: pet shop etc, I have not once complimented myself, I have merely been complimenting you a fair few times, so dont use that one.

'I'm not going to post my resume or anything on this site, because it really doesn't matter. But if someone makes a statement or gives an opinion without any substantial evidence to back it up, I will call them out on it.'

This is another thing that is just plain arrogant, you will not resume anything else on this site, because YOU want to have the last word/say and therefor be resumed right (in your own mind..you will be -that is if you do not re read this thread!)

As for the methods you have used, I really cannot comment further because I have not had the fortunate experience of working in a pet shop, so I can no longer comment on what theoretically, or is proved or to you, personally, works.

No you never to be an expert or better than others, but your attitude implyed it. I simply feel you should try a more warming approach, because incase you didnt notice you are actualy dealing with humans alot more than reptiles!

'how I've learned half of what I know thus far; someone else proved me wrong at something, and I had to eat my hat.'

If that be true, then I can well and truly take back all I said about you not accepting ever being wrong etc (though I still have yet to see it)

As for emailing you etc, sorry but like I stated before.. lets not get personal about it, this is just that, a forum where nothing should be personal.

'when people start acting rude and immature with me, I'll stoop to their level and return the fire.'

Of course you should do this, if people act this way with you, but you were stating you are this way to start with. I feel that as you were/are (I dont know) in buisness, and were/are getting paid for it, you should come out with a more than helpful and happy face and attitude on, then I see no reason that if they are rude to you, to do the same back, I was never saying otherwise.


Now, back to the thread as it was meant to be! :)
 
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I dont think there is a point in trying to even join in. That is one bullheaded woman there.:grinno:
 
Main Entry: bullheaded
Part of Speech: adjective 2
Definition: not listening
Synonyms: blind, headstrong, indifferent, intractable, oblivious, obstinate, pertinacious, perverse, pigheaded*, self-willed, strong-willed, stubborn, unconcerned, unhearing, unmoved
 
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