Wanting to mix a largish New World with Mbuna...

[Cichlaholics Anonymous]

If you're selfish enough not to care about the individual needs of each fish, such as diet and proper water parameters - go for it.

to be fair to the op, the fish mentioned are all most likely captive-raised fish, and bred in the same water parameters as each other. My issue with this is that diet problems will occur, and mbuna will harrass and stress similarly sized juvenile CA's from what I've see. I'd try mixing with some haps if the goal is to have the malawi colors mixed in with CA, as an alternative to mbuna, as the dietary and behavior differences aren't as large.

 

[SimonL]

If you're selfish enough not to care about the individual needs of each fish, such as diet and proper water parameters - go for it.

That's rather ignorant. Are you telling me that in your tanks there aren't fish with different dietary requirements? OMG all those people with silver dollars and oscars in the same tank must be selfish monsters...

Back on topic, I find bigger American cichlids mix better with big "haps", such as Venustus or Electric Blues, than Mbuna. I had a mixed tank that worked great...

 

[GTS]

It is bad mix IMO. If you try to mix mbuna with semi-aggressive americans such as dempseys and green terrors two scenarios are possible. If all the fish are the same size then the mbuna would spank the dempseys and gt's. If the green terror's and dempseys are much larger they could snack on the mbuna.

Haps would be a better choice as they grow much larger than mbuna. Just take care not to house the haps with truly aggressive fish such as midas, motaguense, dovii, zonatus etc.

 

[Adhlc]

That's rather ignorant. Are you telling me that in your tanks there aren't fish with different dietary requirements? OMG all those people with silver dollars and oscars in the same tank must be selfish monsters...

Back on topic, I find bigger American cichlids mix better with big "haps", such as Venustus or Electric Blues, than Mbuna. I had a mixed tank that worked great...

Ignorant is keeping fish that require a pH o 8.3 with fish that require a ph of 6.5 - 7.0. And yes actually, all my fish do have the same diet - and water parameters. I don't see how you can keep a carnivorous fish with a bunch of herbivorous Malawans. And your example of Silver Dollars with Oscars is just ridiculous. Being that both will readily except either meat or vegie, and neither will suffer from getting too much of one.

 

[Cichlaholics Anonymous]

Ignorant is keeping fish that require a pH o 8.3 with fish that require a ph of 6.5 - 7.0. And yes actually, all my fish do have the same diet - and water parameters. I don't see how you can keep a carnivorous fish with a bunch of herbivorous Malawans. And your example of Silver Dollars with Oscars is just ridiculous. Being that both will readily except either meat or vegie, and neither will suffer from getting too much of one.

but Simon's post said that mixing the CA's is a bad idea too, so the herbivore vs. carnivore dietary conflict isn't the issue. The problem with the pH is that if these fish were all bred somewhere like a fish farm in Tampa that has the same water, there would be no issue mixing new worlds with haps

 

[Adhlc]

but Simon's post said that mixing the CA's is a bad idea too, so the herbivore vs. carnivore dietary conflict isn't the issue. The problem with the pH is that if these fish were all bred somewhere like a fish farm in Tampa that has the same water, there would be no issue mixing new worlds with haps

He never said mixing CA's was a bad idea - in fact his tank had some CA's with the malawans. I'm saying in general it shouldn't be done.For example the dietary needs of of a Vieja Argentea and a Yellow Lab are very simillar, but it doesn't mean they should be mixed. If you found a way to selectively feed each fish then great. However if you're putting say an Oscar with some Mbuna, it would seem impossible to give the Oscar what he needs without also giving it to Africans - which could in turn cause bloat.

And while most of them do come from farms where the pH may not be up to par with the actual lake, it doesn't mean anyone buying these fish should ignore their IDEAL water conditions. This same logic could be used for Saltwater or Brackish, but wouldn't work out in the long haul. Most SW wholesalers keep the fish in a very low salinity level to help ward off parasites, now that doesn't mean anyone looking to buy the fish should do the same. Same thing goes with brackish. Many of the puffers and Scats were raised in FW, and while you can keep them in FW for the duration of their lives, I stil wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Otherone]

Ignorant is keeping fish that require a pH o 8.3 with fish that require a ph of 6.5 - 7.0. And yes actually, all my fish do have the same diet - and water parameters. I don't see how you can keep a carnivorous fish with a bunch of herbivorous Malawans. And your example of Silver Dollars with Oscars is just ridiculous. Being that both will readily except either meat or vegie, and neither will suffer from getting too much of one.

Not all African rift lake fish require high veggatation in their diet nor are all rift fish small - the malawi trout for example 12"+ fish high protien diet very aggressive could give most CA/SA's a serious ass kickin' - the malawi Giant cichlid 2' can get larger than most SA/CA's in length.

PH between 6.5 and 8.5 so long as it is stable is do able for most all cichlids. My Red Terrors and Salvini's have both had several broods in ph 8.0. My tap waters ph 8.0. next town over it's nuetral 7.0 go figure.

Every fish has a different personality nothing is concrete just suggested.

 

[Aromantis]

He never said mixing CA's was a bad idea - in fact his tank had some CA's with the malawans. I'm saying in general it shouldn't be done.For example the dietary needs of of a Vieja Argentea and a Yellow Lab are very simillar, but it doesn't mean they should be mixed. If you found a way to selectively feed each fish then great. However if you're putting say an Oscar with some Mbuna, it would seem impossible to give the Oscar what he needs without also giving it to Africans - which could in turn cause bloat.

And while most of them do come from farms where the pH may not be up to par with the actual lake, it doesn't mean anyone buying these fish should ignore their IDEAL water conditions. This same logic could be used for Saltwater or Brackish, but wouldn't work out in the long haul. Most SW wholesalers keep the fish in a very low salinity level to help ward off parasites, now that doesn't mean anyone looking to buy the fish should do the same. Same thing goes with brackish. Many of the puffers and Scats were raised in FW, and while you can keep them in FW for the duration of their lives, I stil wouldn't recommend it.

First of all, I don't think anyone appreciates your confrontational attitude. The op asked posted this thread to ask a question and get respectful answers, not to have his morals or care for his fish be questioned.
Secondly, although I fully understand your opinion, I highly disagree. This is because the fact that most of these come from several generations of breeding on fish farms with more neutral pH's, they no longer require the pH's and other parameters their wild counterparts do. This trait has long been bred out of them. After all, if the fish are comfortable enough to breed for the fish farms in different conditions than from the wild, how unhappy can they really be?
Moreover, in the wild silver dollars are almost exclusively vegetarian, so you can't tell me that keeping them with cichlids which are eating mostly carnivorous diets is natural. It's just as unnatural as the setup the op is asking about. Clearly there is a realistic way to make it work, and that's what the op is asking about, not if he is selfish or irresponsible.

 

[Adhlc]

First of all, I don't think anyone appreciates your confrontational attitude. The op asked posted this thread to ask a question and get respectful answers, not to have his morals or care for his fish be questioned.
Secondly, although I fully understand your opinion, I highly disagree. This is because the fact that most of these come from several generations of breeding on fish farms with more neutral pH's, they no longer require the pH's and other parameters their wild counterparts do. This trait has long been bred out of them. After all, if the fish are comfortable enough to breed for the fish farms in different conditions than from the wild, how unhappy can they really be?
Moreover, in the wild silver dollars are almost exclusively vegetarian, so you can't tell me that keeping them with cichlids which are eating mostly carnivorous diets is natural. It's just as unnatural as the setup the op is asking about. Clearly there is a realistic way to make it work, and that's what the op is asking about, not if he is selfish or irresponsible.

I'm simply stating my opinion. I get asked this question almost every day at work and It gets old. Furthermore while I do agree that fish farms more than likely keep the water neutral - you simply don't know for sure, unless of course you're suggesting that you've gonne to every fish farm and have statistics for the rest of us. Just because they may not require the same parameters as wild caughts, doesn't mean they shouldn't have it. I see no harm in the fact that I'm suggestiong people keep fish closely to their natural habitat - and I'm even more confused why so many people here seem to think it's wrong and that I'm being an ass. I never questioned his morals or care. It is in my experience from working at 3 fish stores in the past few years and dealing with hundreds if not thousands of people, that the ones who always want to mix are generally the ones who just don't care. Furhtermore, you claim keeping Silver Dollars is unnatrual with Cichlids - which leads me to believe you failed to read exactly what I said. Not to mention that saying most cichlids are carnivorous is a gross and uneducated generalization.

 

[glenbo]

LOL yeh i'm ignorant thats fkin funny coming from the reputation this site has....

Anyway, I tried it...i went and bought a JD @ 3" I bought him at 1pm and he was eaten by 2pm by my Demasoni,Aurautus and Red Zebra.

Wont be trying that again....