Proximus;5084605; said:
The only thing you would really have to worry about killing or setting back bacteria would be chlorine.
I've done the same thing as you. No problems here.
Water change with ray's
- Thread starter Whynot91
- Start date
The only thing you would really have to worry about killing or setting back bacteria would be chlorine.
I've done the same thing as you. No problems here.
Tor-Eriik;5084534; said:
I always use this method. A few weeks befor emy move i took a new fx5 and put it on the tank. Than i Just filled a 240 gallon pond with 80 percent tap water. Pulled the last 20 percent from the 180 gallon tank. Treated with prime and heated water to same temp as my 180. Than i pulled the older fx5 off the 180 gallon and tossed it in the pond. Added 2 sponge filters, one cultured one new. Tossed these in the pond. Transfered 3 rays. Water has been testing perfect since the move. I dont think bb was shocked at all. Rays ate one hour after the move. Bothe the 180 aro tank and the 240 gallon pond have had no spikes. Once the bacteria is there its there. It will feed off ammonia and nitrite from any water as long as its pretreated and not extreme in any temp. Thats just my experience over the last decade or so.
Zoodiver;5049369; said:
Id have to agree. I very rarely do water changes any more now i have a better filtration on my pond. Like they say if it isnt broke dont mess with it.
worked like a charm here aswell!mshill90;5084520; said:
Your comment has no relevance to my situation. I would not like to be in any body of water for a year, considering I am not an aquatic creature and that would not be good for me even if it was pure clean water. But if I was an aquatic creature, I would definitely have no problem in one of my systems nor does any of my fish, because I am not using "just a filter". I am not saying you don't need to do water changes or you should not. All of you probably need to on a regular basis and if you don't have a filter system like mine than I would recommend regular water changes. I on the other hand do not need to do regular water changes because of other things I do.
Where do you think your tap water comes from? A water treatment plant. It was waist water at one time and has been processed (recycled) so it is not waist water anymore. That is correct, your tap water went down someones toilet at one time. It could have been pissed out by a $5 hooker for all you know, but you still drink it and put it in your tank don't you?
My filter systems recycle the water. They change my fish waist water into new clean water. You go ahead and think what you want and justify your thoughts however you want and I will continue to use science and nature as a friend.
The water you are putting back into your tank has been recycled by someone else, I am doing it myself. If I were you, I would be trying to learn more about nature and how nature can help you and do less arguing with people on a topic you obviously don't know much about. You know nothing about my filter systems and yet you think you can tell me I am doing something wrong and somehow torturing my fish? You have much to learn in this hobby and about socialization.
earthstudent;5086076; said:
Well let's see your special filters then shall we? **EDIT- I have seen your scrubby filter- my S/G filter on my koi tank is more efficient than that- and I STILL do water changes**
What are you using to STERILIZE you water? Water treatment facilities use chlorine, which would be why we have to use chlorine removers before adding it into fish tanks- so how is your process like a waste water plant?
Fish filters all do the same thing... they filter water and put it back into your tank, but that doesn't mean you can get away with not doing water changes- even if you had plants- stuff settles in the tank, and filters don't always work 100% all the time.
As far as socialization- you seem to be the one on a high horse about these incredible filters of yours.. I just simply questioned why you aren't changing your water.
Yes, a fish may show that it's "ok" living in your tank, but in nature these fish get fresh water all the time through their natural body of water- in your tank they are not getting anything fresh.
mshill90;5086283; said:
Once again you have made incorrect assumptions. I do add fresh water weekly and some tanks, every other day. The reason for this is due to evaporation. Like nature raining evaporated water back down I am simply adding new water to the system. I also am removing allot of waist in other ways because of my system design and I do vacuum crap from the tank which involves "changing" some water but it would only be about 5-10% every other week, so hardly considered a water change.
Waist water plants are treating water differently than I am because we are treating different types of waist and different quantities of waist. I am simply giving an example to the fact that water can be recycled as you seamed to have eliminated that option with your comments.
You don't have to STERILIZE your water. Your tap water is not STERILIZED and many organisms can still survive in the levels of chlorine that is in normal tap water.
Your S/G filter is not doing anything different than any other BB filter. I have no idea what your filter is like so I can not comment on its efficiency but I will tell you, it is not removing nitrate and phosphate and it is not adding nutrients to the water.
I am using a wet dry filter (very efficient BB filter) and an algae filter as the primary plant filter and I will not get into all the benefits of this type of filtration because there are plenty of places to find that info if you would like to know. I also am not trying to teach anyone anything that does not want to learn and open to new things.
My experimental tank that has gone about a year with no water changes has a puffer fish in it and if you know anything about puffer fish you would know that they are scaleless (basically) and are a fairly sensitive fish when it comes to water perams and disease. This fish is doing very well. There are also several other fish in the tank doing just as good. You are correct in that, other than observation, I have little other ways to determine the health of my fish but in that respect, neither do you. How do you know your koi are doing well? I do know koi are much hardier than puffer fish.
And really??? "Fish filters all do the same thing" & "filters don't always work 100% all the time"
I am not even going to comment on those statements.
earthstudent;5086862; said:
Yes, drinking water is sterilized! Water Treatment facilities use a process called UVGI. Ultra Violet Germicidal Irradiation.
As far as puffers vs Koi- I keep BOTH. I have a full grown Fahaka Puffer, and my indoor koi tank is grossly overstocked.
My koi spawn frequently in my tank, and growth rate is above typical growth rate for koi. I have an 8 month old Koi that's reaching 24".
My 14" Fahaka puffer lived the first year of it's life in a small 55 gallon tank from the previous owner- the water was so dirty in the tank that you could not see that there was a fish in the tank.
I think that fish are not as sensitive as people make them out to be, just as they do with rays.
To each their own, but water changes could vastly improve something with your fish that you are yet to have observed.
If I was a fish, I wouldn't mind larger amounts of fresh water here and there. Just saying.. but it's your tank and time.. not mine.
Wow, I have been away for a week and this thread has run and run.
I take on board Pete's comments about 90% not knocking out the bacteria as it is not a constant and I bow down to the logic. I would still hate to NEED to do that much but I accept that the choice seems fine based on the evidence as long as the water is of similar temp and params.
I currently do a max of 25% per week but I have an automated 20 gal drip per day and my nitrates NEVER exceed 25 ppm; as with most of us on here I believe my route to be correct.
I also have pothos growing rapidly and I cannot see any benefit to the nitrate levels but if you are at 100ppm I think they will reduce this to sensible levels as long as they are growing well.
I take on board Pete's comments about 90% not knocking out the bacteria as it is not a constant and I bow down to the logic. I would still hate to NEED to do that much but I accept that the choice seems fine based on the evidence as long as the water is of similar temp and params.
I currently do a max of 25% per week but I have an automated 20 gal drip per day and my nitrates NEVER exceed 25 ppm; as with most of us on here I believe my route to be correct.
I also have pothos growing rapidly and I cannot see any benefit to the nitrate levels but if you are at 100ppm I think they will reduce this to sensible levels as long as they are growing well.
mshill90;5086895; said:
If you can point out what I am yet to observe than that would be very helpful. At this point it is at experimental levels and I am only a year into the experiment with this type of system. I may very well be missing something but no person or fish has shown me what that might be exactly. All measurable perimeters are good and the fish are showing no signs of ill effects. I would like to point out that I DO advocate water frequent water changes on the average tank. I am simply experimenting with a natural way of filtering and at this point I have not found a need to do a water change with the way I have setup this system, but I am looking for that "missing link" that so many people keep telling me I must be missing. It seems to be more elusive than bigfoot and probably just as real. I have run my ideas by collage biology professors and they seem to be the only ones telling me to keep doing what I am doing because it makes sense. Oh well, what do they know, they are just the people that teach this stuff professionally.
I am not doing this experimenting because I am lazy and don't want to do water changes. It actually took allot of work to build these systems as I built everything except the pumps. I have been in this hobby for about 20 years and know water changing all to well.
Are you doing huge frequent water changes on your 6000g koi pond? If so, do you not feel this is a huge waist of water? Would you not prefer to have a filter system that drastically reduced the amount of water you waist? Or if you are not doing huge water changes, would you not like to have a filter system that reduces you maintenanceand at the same time improved the water quality? I spend less than half an hour per month dealing with my experimental tank, that includes feeding but minus all the testing I do and that tank waists NO water other than what is evaporated and I replenish.
I am planning a 2000g ray tank and do not want to waist ridiculous amounts of water doing huge water changes every week. So I am looking for a better way, a more natural way. So far my efforts seem to be paying off as my experiment is doing so well it astonishes me. I am simply trying to share my findings with people and I get people like you trying to "de-bunk" me. Like you said, to each there own, I will continue growing algae and doing what I can to advance my small part in this hobby and you keep doing your water changes.
