Water Changes & Diseases

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo

abiddle

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
May 17, 2008
326
0
0
65
Sweet Home Alabama
I recently had a terrible outbreak of ich or what has also been identified as velvet. This cost me a lot in time and fish because some were so bad they had to be euthanized. I have performed the necessary treatments and seem to be back to normal. But I am now working on prevention, which I understand inculeds the use of salt and keeping the temp up.

I read that fluctuations in temperature are one of the causes of ich, so I have to wonder about my water changing method. for years I did the bucket brigade thing with warm water from the tub. After some research on this website I discovered a much easier way by using an X Large vacume hose and a large plastic garbage can to remove old water, and simply use the garden hose to refill (with Prime of course). I live in the south so in the coldest months the water temp would drop from 80 degrees to 70 degrees.

I wonder if the 10 degree decrease in temp during water changes likely cased the ich?

Thanks!
 
IMO anything more than 5 degrees is asking for trouble....

Another thing to consider is the time duration. Does it change 10 degrees over an hour? 15 minutes?
 
I see it like this, the water in your tank need only be changed to keep NO3 levels down (and when adding somethink to your tanks water chemistry to alter it)
Eg if you have 200 gallon tank with 20 small fish then you might only need to do a 10% chang each month.
If you go 200 gallons and 20 large fish you may need to 20% per week etc
As regard to the tanks temp i would be worried if the water temp changed more than 4 or 5 degrees durring a water change.
Hope this helps you
 
Good information!

The tank with the ich is a 180 gal and was pretty heavily stocked.
Out of habit I did a 40% water change every Saturday.

I was thinking about adding another heater and keeping both of them on during the change in order to get the temp back up quicker. I could also decrease the flow rate of the fresh water. I will also begin adding salt. I had not been doing that in the past.
 
abiddle;2962826; said:
Good information!

The tank with the ich is a 180 gal and was pretty heavily stocked.
Out of habit I did a 40% water change every Saturday.

I was thinking about adding another heater and keeping both of them on during the change in order to get the temp back up quicker. I could also decrease the flow rate of the fresh water. I will also begin adding salt. I had not been doing that in the past.


Another factor to consider is does the ph swing during your change?

40% is enough to put some serious ph stress on your fish...
 
this was written with bichirs in mind but applies to all fish really
STRESS
Stress in a broad context,is any reaction to factors that drive physiological systems outside the normal range.Stess can affect fish endocrine systems and result in supression of the immune system,thereby decreasing a fishes abilty to fight infections,disease and parasites that normaly might not present of a physiological challenge.
There are two different kinds of stress that concerns us"acute"stress or short term stress and "chronic"or long term stress.Acute or short term stress may last only a few hours or a few days this often results in increased levels of catecholamines(epinephrine,norepinephrine)and cortisol.Increased levels of these hormones in respose to the stressor.These changes can result osmotic imbalances,decrease in white blood cell counts and a dimminished response to infectious agents.
Causes of short term stress includes but are not limited to the below.
Netting,moving and transporting
improper aclimation to new tank
chemical substances (medication)bichirs do not tolerate some medications primaraly copper based meds
tho current thought is many older copper based meds contained a fair amount of zinc
fight or flight response
Indications of "acute" or short term stress include the following
Faded coloration(this is more noticable on sensgals and lapradei)
Lack of appetite
hiding
rapid gill movement
excess slimecoat
to help reduce"acute"stress to a minimum try the following
when you bring a new bichir home place it in its qt preferably in a darkened area
and simply leave it alone for 24 hours.so it can begin settleing in.
Properly aclimate your new fish this involes more than floating the bag in the tank
which only equlizes the tempurature.
Netting and moving do this only when needed ie. moving them to bigger tanks or removing them
to a hospital tank for treatment.
Long term or chronic stress
In the wild fish can move to more desirable conditions and avoid stressful situations
however in captivity fish are often subjected to relatively long periods of stress.A common
cause of death in stressed captive fish is osmotic inbalance.A fish exposed to chronic stress
has 2 options adapt or eventualy die.even if a fish adapts growth rate and general health will
be reduced during the period of adoptation.The systems responsible for the basic
metabolic functions such as the nervous system,the respiratory system and the systems that
control osmoregulation have a higher priority than growth or reproduction.Under conditions
of little or no stress there is an energy surplus that can be put towards growth and reproduction.
Chronic stress has also been shown to cause changes at the celluar and tissue levels especially
the liver,gills and spleen to the point of failure.
causes of chronic stress include but are not limited to
rapid temperture changes
rapid changes in water chemistry (pH)
overly agressive tankmates
poor water qualtiy
Prevention
Rapid tempurture fluctuations:Can be avoided by buying a quality heater
if the heater is placed exposed in the tank either buy or make a heater
guard this will prevent heater burns.
Rapid changes in water chemistry:(pH) do not atempt to adjust your source water pH
let your fish adjust to the natural pH of your source water.
Poor water conditions:Maintian a proper waterchange scheudule.
Water quality maintain a schedule to change the water and clean the tank this prevents
build up of waste and other substances.
Overcrowding:Do not overcrowd your tank when purchasing fish think of the adult sizes not how big they
when you buy them usually as juveniles.
Poor diet:offer a variety of foods not just one thing and if using feeders either quarantine
them or better yet raise your own.
Agressive tankmates:Bichirs are generally non agressive tankmates.If you observe constant bullying
seperate the bully
 
Are you testing your tanks water before doing a water change for NO3 levals and also as stated above Ph levals?
I test my tank each week, normaly one day before i do the water change.
I test for NO3, NO2, NH3/4, Ph, Kh, Gh and O2(it takes about half an hour)
The reason i do this is because i can add Bicarb and or Buffer to maintain my Ph as i live in very soft water area. Also i do 100Ltr water change (10% of tank) and put it to 5 20Ltr containers. With in a few hours the water in the containers is almost at room temp so not much change in tank temp.
Just how i do it.
 
My local community has a very good water source from an artesian well. They provide an annual water quality report and they do not add chloramines. The PH from the tap is a constant 7.5 and this is with a Rainsoft water treatment system. I have large pieces of driftwood to soften the water, but it makes very little difference in the ph.

I have very good filtration and do not overstock, so my water parameters are consistently very good.

This is why I have reached the conclusion that it must be the swing in temp which is listed as a specific cause for a breakout of ich. I had also kept the tanks at only 75 degrees which may be a little low.

Stress was probably a contributor because I had recently set up a new 150 gal tank with a juvenile jaguar that is very reclusive. I moved my silver dollars from the 180 gal tank to the 150 gal in order to try and bring out the jag a little more. After moving the silver dollars my Oscar began to sulk, or became very ill. He may be the one that started the ich, but it did not show externally. He would lay on his side barely breathing. I thought it might be bloat, but after some research many people said he was probably just upset about moving the silver dollars which had been with him all his life.

The ich/velvet showed up first on one of my Sevrum’s, then spread to a Green Terror. A Geo and three Firemouth’s had a mild case and two JD’s didn’t show any at all. The Oscar, Severum and GT were euthanized. I began treatment and it has disappeared from the others, but I am continuing the treatment for three more days as recommended.

I have ordered additional heaters for all my tanks and will begin to maintain 80 degree temps. I will also begin to add some salt after water changes. During water changes I will keep the heaters on and add the water slower. I will have to continue with the hose water, because I do not have the time or resources for the bucket brigade with the amount of water I am changing now.

I appreciate all of the input, and any additional ideas are welcome.
 
MonsterFishKeepers.com