What am I doing wrong with Geophagus?

[jjohnwm]

While we are on the side-topic of pump models, flowrates, surface agitation, square bubbles and oxygen levels...I'll just throw an observation in:

I currently have 3 outdoor stock tanks devoted to Gymnogeophagus (rhabdotus and balzanii). These are completely stagnant pools of water; any attempt at aeration or water movement (and I have tried) eliminates the temperature stratification which is what makes them habitable for the fish. The hot summer sun can easily raise the surface temp up into the 90F+ range, but the bottom remains comfortable. A cool night (often down into the 60F range even in the warmest parts of the summer, and sometimes the mid-50F range now) drops the temp overall but the fish somehow manage to find an optimal zone.

All three of these tanks...along with a few others containing other cichlids, cats, livebearers, etc...are swimming with fry. One of them even has fry produced by fish that were themselves spawned early this year, in a tank in the basement. The stocktanks are thick with hornwort, duckweed and other floating plants, and produce hair algae that I pull out by the handful. Supplemental feeding by me is very light.

I think the key to their success is the fact that I have never allowed these fish to read a Sicce catalog, a scholarly treatise on South American cichlid biology or a metric/imperial conversion chart. Their ignorance translates to bliss...which leads to lovin'...

 

[neutrino]

SA water chemistry is more complicated and diverse than is often acknowledged or understood, even within certain regions considered to have this or that type of water.

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...ican-habitat-river-types.723828/#post-8169041

 

[jjohnwm]

SA water chemistry is more complicated and diverse than is often acknowledged or understood, even within certain regions considered to have this or that type of water.

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...ican-habitat-river-types.723828/#post-8169041

I think this is true just about everywhere. While a region in general may have a common water type, there are likely small pockets of extreme conditions here and there.

I have, within a quarter-mile of my house, a small stagnant pond, a fast-flowing highly-oxygenated stream and a section of lakeshore replete with shallow, weedy bays. Between these three habitats there is often a pH range between 7 and 8.5, temperature differences of up to 15F degrees, and TDS ranging from 100 to 325ppm. There are at least several species that I know (and likely lots more) of fish that live and breed prolifically in all three habitats simultaneously. The pond often shows nitrate readings approaching 100 in early summer.

After decades of fish-keeping, I have only very recently begun testing water parameters in natural water bodies; it's a fascinating and eye-opening add-on to the hobby. Plus, if you happen to enjoy the bemused stares from passers-by when they see an old codger in waders flailing around with a net...wait until you see them stare when you pull a bunch of test tubes and dropper bottles out of your fly-fishing vest and start taking readings...

 

[esoxlucius]

The only thing I can think off is maybe the 55 is going through a cycle? I had set it up and used established media and let it run for a week. Then I added fish a week later but I added most at once so maybe it caused a cycle?

I know other members have already picked up on this, and rightly so. This is a staggering error to make. Especially for someone who spews out video after video on you tube on species profiles and such on how to care for fish!!!

It's a little unnerving actually when I think about how many "fans" may follow you on these platforms you're on, hang on every word you say, and yet you don't seem to have the basics dialled in yourself!

 

[WOLF2013]

How exactly is this tank cycling? A tank sitting empty of fish isn't cycling by magic. In the first instance, you mention adding established media. How much did you use? A small infusion of used gravel or media is a great way to kick-start the bacterial colony that you need; a large enough quantity can create an "instant" cycle depending upon the bioload you introduce. In either case, those bacteria require food. When you add established media to a new aquarium, and then do not add at least some fish, you are literally moving further and further from your goal every day as the bacteria you introduced die off from lack of food. Maybe you were adding pure ammonia? No idea, and no explanation offered.

The second comment...letting the tank cycle a month...is similar. If the tank has no fish or other ammonia source, and just sits there with the filter percolating...you are moving backwards. It takes a lot longer than a month for the bacteria to die off completely, but you are achieving nothing...less than nothing, actually...by sitting there looking at an any empty aquarium shouting "Cycle! Cycle!" at it.

It doesn't matter how long a tank has been established. It will have a bacterial population capable of handing the waste produced by the bioload in the tank. If you suddenly add a huge quantity of new fish, it takes some time for the bacterial population to increase and "catch up" to the new larger bioload. A mini-spike in ammonia is very possible, and should be watched for. Very light feeding after the introduction of more fish is also a step towards minimizing the risk of a spike.

I had moved a filter with filter media and everything in it from an established aquarium to the 55 gallon. So all the bacteria and whatnot from the previous tank is transferred to the 55 gallon.
I feed once a day small amounts.

These are a couple great videos on what many Geo's need.
Geophagus - Guide to Amazonian Eartheaters - nearly all Geophagus species !
Geophagus Guide 2 - the new Andes eartheaters + Geophagus pellegrini , steindachneri & crassilabris

those are awesome videos, one of my favorite youtubers!

I know other members have already picked up on this, and rightly so. This is a staggering error to make. Especially for someone who spews out video after video on you tube on species profiles and such on how to care for fish!!!

It's a little unnerving actually when I think about how many "fans" may follow you on these platforms you're on, hang on every word you say, and yet you don't seem to have the basics dialled in yourself!

Oh, so you must be perfect, then? You've never made a mistake in your life? A mistake doesn't make me the worst fish keeper out there. I'm not saying that I am the best or I know it all because I don't, but what I can say is I do my videos because I am passionate and love fish.
All the species profiles I do are of species that I have kept and know about and I don't do videos on fish I don't know about.
One mistake does NOT and WILL NOT define whether or not I have the basics dialed in. Any aquarium hobbyist can make a mistake youtuber or not.

 

[jjohnwm]

I had moved a filter with filter media and everything in it from an established aquarium to the 55 gallon. So all the bacteria and whatnot from the previous tank is transferred to the 55 gallon.
I feed once a day small amounts.

That method works; it's what I do with virtually every tank I set up. But, let's assume that you took out the one-and-only filter from the old established tank and used that. You wouldn't have actually gotten all the bacteria (and "whatnot") from that tank, since there are plenty of them on all the interior surfaces of the tank, but practically speaking, you would have the new tank now populated with enough bacteria to support more or less the same bioload as you had in the old tank. That's the catch: you cannot, for example, take a filter from an established, mature 20-gallon tank lightly stocked with a few small fish...and then plop it into a much larger tank with a much greater bioload and expect everything to be perfect. The bacterial population will grow rapidly, but for a few days at least you will be experiencing a major ammonia spike until the bacterial growth catches up to the suddenly-far-greater bioload. Feeding lightly or not at all would help...but the best idea would be to start that new tank with a similar small bioload and only gradually add fish so as to not overwhelm your bacterial colony. With cichlids especially, this can create other problems related to aggression or behaviour, but I am addressing only the bioload issue here.

The old established tank from which the filter came is now in trouble, if that were the only filter in it. If there were two filters and you took just one...then the old tank will quickly grow more bacteria in the remaining filter to replace those which you removed...but the new tank would be at an even greater disadvantage because it started with even less bacteria than required for a much smaller bioload than it contains.

..A mistake doesn't make me the worst fish keeper out there...

No, of course not...we all make 'em, but...

...One mistake does NOT and WILL NOT define whether or not I have the basics dialed in...

Well...a mistake like this really will. This is basic nitrogen-cycle stuff; the heart and soul of fishkeeping.

It sounds as though we were halfway through this thread before you discovered that you have hard water coming from your tap; again, pretty basic stuff. The first paragraph of your original post tells us that you have lost multiple Geo's on multiple occasions...and then you ask if you are doing something wrong! Well...yeah.

I'm not picking on you; you're not unique, we all as aquarists needed to learn this stuff. But I'm not a social-media hound, and didn't realize at first that you are posting fish-keeping vids. If you are looking for social media attention...you simply must expect to be called out when you do something like this.

 

[esoxlucius]

If you are looking for social media attention...you simply must expect to be called out when you do something like this

Exactly, and I called him out, and he threw his toys out the pram.

He does a lot of cooking too, and I must admit the guy has got some culinary skills.

I just hope his "mistakes" only arise on the fish keeping front, if he has a wobble in the kitchen he could give some poor unfortunate soul food poisoning!

 

[WOLF2013]

That method works; it's what I do with virtually every tank I set up. But, let's assume that you took out the one-and-only filter from the old established tank and used that. You wouldn't have actually gotten all the bacteria (and "whatnot") from that tank, since there are plenty of them on all the interior surfaces of the tank, but practically speaking, you would have the new tank now populated with enough bacteria to support more or less the same bioload as you had in the old tank. That's the catch: you cannot, for example, take a filter from an established, mature 20-gallon tank lightly stocked with a few small fish...and then plop it into a much larger tank with a much greater bioload and expect everything to be perfect. The bacterial population will grow rapidly, but for a few days at least you will be experiencing a major ammonia spike until the bacterial growth catches up to the suddenly-far-greater bioload. Feeding lightly or not at all would help...but the best idea would be to start that new tank with a similar small bioload and only gradually add fish so as to not overwhelm your bacterial colony. With cichlids especially, this can create other problems related to aggression or behaviour, but I am addressing only the bioload issue here.

The old established tank from which the filter came is now in trouble, if that were the only filter in it. If there were two filters and you took just one...then the old tank will quickly grow more bacteria in the remaining filter to replace those which you removed...but the new tank would be at an even greater disadvantage because it started with even less bacteria than required for a much smaller bioload than it contains.




No, of course not...we all make 'em, but...




Well...a mistake like this really will. This is basic nitrogen-cycle stuff; the heart and soul of fishkeeping.

It sounds as though we were halfway through this thread before you discovered that you have hard water coming from your tap; again, pretty basic stuff. The first paragraph of your original post tells us that you have lost multiple Geo's on multiple occasions...and then you ask if you are doing something wrong! Well...yeah.

I'm not picking on you; you're not unique, we all as aquarists needed to learn this stuff. But I'm not a social-media hound, and didn't realize at first that you are posting fish-keeping vids. If you are looking for social media attention...you simply must expect to be called out when you do something like this.

Yes it is true, that this is nitrogen cycle stuff. I never needed to test tap water in MA because the water was perfect there. Me being new to FL didn't know that the water is much different here. So I brought a sample of tap water to the local fish store and they did a check and gave me a lecture about it. My tank parameters are as follows (this is 55 gallon):
p.h. 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrate 52 ppm, nitrite o ppm. A couple water changes will reduce the nitrate levels. I could be off on the exact nitrate level as I threw the paper away but it wasn't what it should be and I won't be adding any new fish until I get the nitrate level that I like which is <50 ppm.
I have already rehomed all the tiger barbs to clear the tank up.
Usually I don't add so many fish at once and that was a rookie mistake on my part. I own up to that and I certainly won't recommend that. This was a occassion where it was my choice because all my other tanks have fish that would eat anything that fits in their month.
I don't mind being called out. I expect comments and appreciate them but also don't like to be insulted or belittled or told that I shouldn't be talking about fish. If that's the case then there are plenty of youtube fish keepers who shouldn't be doing fish videos.
It's not like I'm one of those youtubers who highly advises people to feed feeder goldfish or to get monster fish. There are some florida youtubers here (not naming names) who are making a ton of money advertising people to purchase red tail catfish grow them out and release them. It's one of the reasons fish stores in my area are very cautious about getting red tail cats in stock again.

 

[WOLF2013]

Exactly, and I called him out, and he threw his toys out the pram.

He does a lot of cooking too, and I must admit the guy has got some culinary skills.

I just hope his "mistakes" only arise on the fish keeping front, if he has a wobble in the kitchen he could give some poor unfortunate soul food poisoning!

I never heard that saying before... must be a british saying...
I appreciate the comment on culinary skills. I never have to worry about giving anyone food poisoning I know the basics of food safety and such. I'm serv safe certified. I also think I would be a disgrace to my Culinary school and chef mentors if I did.
On the other hand if someone did piss me off enough, I could get them sick and claim it as a mistake..... lol just kidding. I don't work in a restaurant industry anymore and I just cook for my family and friends and youtube.
No hard feelings man I didn't mean to come across mean or bitter.