What are some of your go to pellet foods?

[RD.]

Xtreme has been around for approx. 10 yrs, lots of people have posted about it on MFK over the years. Started out using soybean meal and a lot of other lower cost raw ingredients, but I think last time I checked they had reformulated at least some of their formulas.

 

[RD.]

Anyone ever use this stuff? My fish sure liked it but the lfs that stocks it is not close so i dont get it often.View attachment 1379894

Just out of curiousity, can you post a pic of the ingredients? The following is what Ken has listed on his site, but Ken tends to not update label changes over the years.

Main Ingredients: Krill Meal, Fish Meal, Wheat Middlings, Wheat, Shrimp Meal, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Flour, Distillers Dried Grains with Soluables, Brewers Dried Yeast, Spirulina, Monosodium Phosphate, Paprika, Limestone, Xanthophyll, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Salt, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, di-Alph Tocopheryl Acetate(Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Caldium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex(source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, Astaxanthin, Beta Carotene Guaranteed Analysis: Protein 38% min, Fat 5% min, Fiber 4.5% max, Moisture 10% max.

 

[Backfromthedead]

Just out of curiousity, can you post a pic of the ingredients? The following is what Ken has listed on his site, but Ken tends to not update label changes over the years.

Main Ingredients: Krill Meal, Fish Meal, Wheat Middlings, Wheat, Shrimp Meal, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Flour, Distillers Dried Grains with Soluables, Brewers Dried Yeast, Spirulina, Monosodium Phosphate, Paprika, Limestone, Xanthophyll, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Salt, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, di-Alph Tocopheryl Acetate(Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Caldium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex(source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin, Astaxanthin, Beta Carotene Guaranteed Analysis: Protein 38% min, Fat 5% min, Fiber 4.5% max, Moisture 10% max.

as i was reading it i noticed a few of the things you had pointed out before pike the terrestrial veggie ingredient splitting and whatnot.

 

[LBDave]

Anyone ever use this stuff? My fish sure liked it but the lfs that stocks it is not close so i dont get it often.View attachment 1379894

I just ordered the big pellets. For monster fish.
Amazon has a lot of their foods.
Was running low on some Hikari foods, will try this.

 

[Matteus]

Hmmmm, I dunno, is it ok with Captain America if we carry on discussing the original topic? Hopefully that was the last of his emotional outbursts for a while. lol


So back on topic …..


sera Sturgeon Granules

Ingredients

fish meal, wheat flour, wheat germ, wheat gluten, brewers yeast, Ca-caseinate, fish oil, mannan oligosaccharides (0.4%), green-lipped mussel, garlic.

Guaranteed analysis

Min. Crude Protein 46.6%, Min. Crude Fat 13.9%, Max. Crude Fiber 5.5%, Max. Moisture 6.0%, Max. Crude Ash 9.1%.


Sera has been around forever, IMO is very similar to Tetra, both German companies that use some rather questionable lower quality raw ingredients, while stacking the terrestrial based plant matter. As an example, in this formula the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ingredients listed by dry weight is WHEAT. Add all 3 ingredients up, and wheat would more than likely become the main ingredient listed on a dry matter basis. Not cool, especially for a fish that is a carnivore. Ingredient splitting is an old trick going back several decades, and as much as I love German technology, when you look closely at their fish foods they are all typically designed in this manner. Tropical brand is another brand that IMO is very similar to Tetra, and sera. Their EU ingredient list accountability is sketchy at best, and raw ingredients such as "cereals" don't pass the sniff test.

So in this formula, instead of using things like Calcium caseinate, to boost the protein levels in this formula, how about adding more fish meal, moving the green lipped mussels to the second ingredient, and losing the wheat germ and wheat gluten completely. In their place, and at a reduced inclusion rate, add some aquatic plant matter, some various algae, even a dash of spirulina would be nice.

And Matthew, unless you are feeding some rather high energy, cold water species of fish, in a massive system where they can burn these high energy calories off, 14% min crude fat content, which means the typical analysis would be more like 16%, or higher, is not a good idea. Not good at all. Sturgeon require higher fat content, much like a rainbow trout or salmon, which I am guess you are not keeping. Warm water species, even the high energy species, should max out at the 10% mark. Even that is pushing it, especially if one overfeeds.

I'm assuming that you were introduced to this food while working at Pisces? The owners father, Peter, originally brought this food in several decades ago. I think he had an almost exclusive deal with sera at the time, they are one of the few stores in AB that carry it. At least they used to be. Just like all store owners, including Cory, they market, and sell, whatever pays the bills. If they get a better deal on food xyz, and it sells for them, that's what they push. Nothing personal, it's just business.

Thank you for the breakdown neil

 

[RD.]

as i was reading it i noticed a few of the things you had pointed out before pike the terrestrial veggie ingredient splitting and whatnot.

Yeah man, at best that's mediocre food. wheat-wheat-rice-wheat-soybean Do the math. Ricky Biro and his brother certainly didn't impress me years ago when they came out with this line of food, and they still don't now. BTW - their farm is just down the road from New Life International, and their food is made by the Zeigler Bros in PA. At least it used to be. Zeigler specialize in bulk farm feed, and private label food such as this. I must say they were quite inventive at how they listed wheat middlings. (wheat midds) Funny stuff.

Thank you for the breakdown neil

No problem.

 

[LBDave]

I just ordered the big pellets. For monster fish.
Amazon has a lot of their foods.
Was running low on some Hikari foods, will try this.

Here is the video from their website.

We will see how the fish like it which is important because they need to eat it.
Also looked at this video

I take all info with a grain of salt even from so called “gurus” on the internet. I also think the bashing has to be considered with a grain of salt.

 

[Matteus]

as i was reading it i noticed a few of the things you had pointed out before pike the terrestrial veggie ingredient splitting and whatnot.

View attachment 1379896

I inherited a few containers of this when I picked up my 70 gal tank. So I tried it and most of my fish loved it. But I found after 3 days my water was clouded up so I stopped using it. That was before I even knew about reading ingredient lists. Lol.

 

[Ogertron3000]

I was reading this thread last night and it inspired me to look at the ingredients of the bag of cheese extreme Doritos I was munching on, I didn't even know what half the ingredients even were!

Here Hikari seems to be the most respected "premium" brand. I've tried it and NLS. My angels loved the NLS and after a few months of feeding it they seemed to have grown dramatically but I couldn't get geos or EBAs to even taste it for some reason.
Funnily enough when I purchased the NLS (inspired by @RD when I was lurking hee) the guy at the shop said it was too prEmium and fish don't really need such a high end product and I would be better of getting the tetra brand!

 

[RD.]

Funnily enough when I purchased the NLS (inspired by @RD when I was lurking hee) the guy at the shop said it was too prEmium and fish don't really need such a high end product and I would be better of getting the tetra brand!

That's funny, but it has some truth to it. Most freshwater fish are pretty resilient when it comes to their nutrient needs, unless they are under stress - then not so much. But marine fish, quite the opposite. Not that many years ago many marine species that are now commonly kept in captivity, and eating commercial food, were considered doomed in captivity.

I wrote the following several yrs ago.....

Kieron Dodds, from Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine wrote an article on the Moorish Idol in 2008, titled; "Still Impossible After All These Years - Keeping Moorish Idol". He clearly admits that the main intent of his article was to discourage anyone from acquiring this species, as at the time he felt this species has almost no chance in being kept alive in captivity beyond a very short duration.(as in a few weeks/months) At one point in the article he stated "Pablo Tepoot is perhaps the single individual who has had the most success with this species" Today, Pablo has tanks full of this species, all thriving for years.

Something that most people would have considered impossible 15 or 20 yrs ago.

Anyone can keep a Moorish Idol or Achilles Tang alive for a brief period of time, but very few manage to keep these fish alive & thriving for years. In the past, many hobbyists would treat these fish with a cut flower mentality, and simply replace them with a new fish when they withered away. Today, there are many hobbyists world-wide that have found that IF their fish are provided with an optimum diet, they too can keep these "doomed in captivity" species, for years.

This hobby has come along ways over the past 50 yrs, and I personally welcome anything that can improve someone's fishkeeping experience. Today we have a multitude of filtration methods & equipment that is offered the hobbyist, controller units that can monitor & control everything from the tanks temperature, lighting (with dawn/dusk/moonlight options), pH, etc., and high quality aquariums that come in all shapes & sizes. Even the species of fish now available to the average hobbyist is something that many fish keepers only dreamed about 50 yrs ago. The science of fish nutrition has also vastly improved from what we knew 50 yrs ago, and many myths & misconceptions from the past, have now been proven to be false.

It's also becoming more clear with each passing study that many of the health disorders that we see in both freshwater and marine fish are directly related to an improper diet. While certain foods may in fact keep a fish that's kept in a totally non-stress environment, healthy, place that same fish under any type of stress & that same food may fail miserably. The problem lies in the fact that when a fish does become ill, most hobbyists aren't going to be able to pin-point the exact cause, especially if it's nutrition related.