what are the best pellets for your FH

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
That guy that said he was 100% sure XO contains hormones, isn't 100% sure of anything. Just more smack talk from a kid, who knows someone who knows someone. Again, pretty easy to figure out if any food has sex hormones in it, yet for some odd reason no one has ever presented any actual proof with any of these foods. This isn't exactly rocket science.


Fenshui ........... no one has said that the type/brand of pellets can't make a difference.
There is no argument there. The argument is what if any hormones some of these Asian made foods may or may not contain. You now keep African cichlids, does XO cause female peacocks to fully color up like a male? If so, then we have our answer for at least one brand/formula of pellet. Surely you must have tested this, yes?

Fact - In Asia hormones are used by many breeders of cichlids. Fact - In Asia synthetic color enhancers such as Carophyll Pink are used by many breeders. Fact - the manufacturer of XO Humpy Head (Qian Hu corp.) sells died & tattooed cichlids, which that alone would stop me from supporting the company in any manner, including feeding their "specialty" food. http://www.qianhu.com/default.asp?id=15&mnu=15

Personally I'm not interested in artificially enhancing any of my fish, and I avoid foods that contain these substances, and I avoid fish that have been artificially enhanced using these methods, just as I avoid vendors who use red NAN lighting and/or photoshop to promote their fish.

Of course there are pellets that will make a red fish, blood red, due to how much synthetic color enhancing agents have been added to the food. I once saw some yellow labidochromis fed Hai Feng exclusively and those naturally yellow colored cichlids, turned orange! I have also seen juvenile African cichlids such as N. livingstonii that at 2" were already fully colored up, as though they were 8-10" adults. Not one or two, but entire tanks full! This isn't some top secret breeding technique that only famous Thai breeders know about, everyone knows that these fish have been subjected to sex hormones such as 17a-Methyl Testosterone. This has been going on in the commercial fish industry for many years, long before flowerhorn even existed.

So yes, there are many reasons why one food may give better results than the next, again, there is no argument there.

My point all along is that there are FAR less expensive foods that can be used to get premium results in ones FH, or any fish for that matter. Specialty FH foods are for the most part overpriced food that has been marketed to appeal to FH enthusiests that either don't understand the fundementals of fish nutrition, or simply don't care. It's called marketing. Qian Hu sells what, 7 or 8 different pellet formulas, just for FH? Too funny.
I don't know how much XO costs stateside, but GS & CM make even the super premium foods look dirt cheap. Those so called "specialty" foods simply aren't worth that kind of money. But hey, I'm not holding a gun to anyones head, buy/feed whatever floats your boat.


BTW - just a few months back you posted the following to me;

Next my vitamin mixture has no hormones in it just a high vitamin mix I show the ingrediants on the back of the bottle in the video it's to prove you don't have to spend a fortune on expensive fh pellets when you can take your cheap pellets add the mix and make it better then the best on the market...

Hmmmmm.
 
From what I hear... XO has hormones in the food... Would watch out for that one.

Here's a link from this site where another member suggests (actually he says he is 100% sure) that XO is hormone ladden:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...y-please-help-to-cure-a-sick-flowerhorn/page3

Other research done on a quick bing search has many people asking if XO has hormones in them and suggesting that it indeed does contain hormones.

If it does contain hormones, I can see why you get such amazing results. Kinda scary and shady if you ask me... I personally wouldn't want to chance it, but whatever works for you. I'm guessing it works pretty well for you in a strictly business sense... seeing that you actually sell FH's. No offense but you are from one of the countries that are well known for their use of hormones in ornamental fish. You got some really nice FH on your site BTW.

Not sure if XO has hormones or not, not arguing at all with that, it's the most popular Pellet brand in SE ASIA pretty much, and does give good results no doubt about that either, Im also not just a seller but a collector myself, of both FH and other Ornamental fish and have been using many different types of food over the years, but from my own opionion dealing with flowerhorns that's my choice of food.We don't have NLS here or beleive me I would love to try that as well, nor Chingmix ect... Actually Ive heard many great thing about NLS from my friends in the states and from their point of veiws about the pellets everything sounds great about the product. Im in no intent to debate about pellets containing hormones or not, just thought I would give my personal experiences about the type and kinds of pellet foods I use. Yet keep in mind the addition of live foods to the diet is just as important. Im pretty much an XO and OKIKO brand pellet food guy..that's all..

Thanks,
Dave
 
I use Hakari and Live Bloodworms on the cichlids, and your absolutly correct you can make a cheap pellet better then any FH pellet on the market by adding a vitamin mixture solution to them, but in the states those mixtures are quite expensive...more then the most expensive pellets on the market, so sticking to the pellets I find from experience the pellets Ive used that give the best results to me are XO and OKIKO, Im unsure if either have hormones in them or not, just out of personal experience with those brands they work well for me...

Dave
 
and your absolutly correct you can make a cheap pellet better then any FH pellet on the market by adding a vitamin mixture solution to them, but in the states those mixtures are quite expensive...more then the most expensive pellets on the market

Umm, I never said that, you did. And simply adding a vitamin mixture to a cheap low quality food does not come anywhere close to a low grade food magically becoming better than a premium food, that utilizes premium raw ingredients, including vitamins & trace minerals. You are comparing quality with quantity, and with regards to protein & fat, the two key elements in any commercial food, it's about quality, and digestibilty, not quantity.
A low quality food that's typically high in starch/carbs, and that utilizes a lower quality form of protein in their food, even with added vitamins will not compare to a high quality food that utilizes superior raw ingredients. If it was that simplistic I could eat vitamin supplemented Twinkies as my main staple diet. lol
 
Might as well follow my fish progression thread, the 60% of his diet consist on Ching Mix Headbooster, I also feed him as I told you before Waldreys Cichlid pellets and Azoo flower horn pellets. Every once in a while brine shrimp and bloodworms. I have tried to feed him beefheart and crickets but he only wants those described before. Maybe if I starved him by two days he would devour other foods as soon as I tossed them but I dont feel like starving him no even a sigle day I think he's progressing quite nicely with such diet so far..

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...45500-My-Flower-horn-progression-thread/page2


Moreover i dont understand so much fuss about Chink Mix, you call it "expensive FH food" as if it cost 100 dlls per envelope. I buy the envelopes per 20 bucks I dont think it is that expensive......
 
um yea im thinking dave from fengshui Aquatics knows what hes talking about so RD,ECW, Water...u guys have some valid points and varied experience in keeping FH but you are by no means a expert or veteran at keeping FH's breed a few million FH first...and stop trying to act like you know everthing nobody cares about what you have to say...and no the argument is which is the best pellet...you turned it into a pissing contest
so basically NLS would be healthier but you get more performance and better results from XO and chingmix
I am going to feed Chingmix(headbooster & maxima) and NLS combined all together
lol armand trying to hijack the thread...:ROFL:
 
BTK - No offense to Dave at Fengshui, you, or anyone else, but I'm probably the closest thing to a nutrition expert as you are ever going to find on MFK, and I don't need anyone to explain to me what's the best feed option for my fish, including the FH that I keep.

The nutritional requirements of a FH are exactly the same as any other large CA cichlid, which is exactly what was used for the genetic foundation of flowerhorn. If you don't care what I have to say I'll make sure to ignore your future threads and comments when I come across them.

Speaking of progression threads, here's one of mine, and this guy just keeps getting nicer with each passing month.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?436561-Red-Diamond-from-Zero-to-Hero
 
I am definitely no expert and never once did I say I am. I just share my experiences and knowledge and welcome you to share your opinion and make a valid point to help me also become more informed. I definitely agree that the type/brand/formulation of pellets do matter and can definitely help with the outer appearance of your fish as well as the health of them. To answer you question on which pellets IMO are the best to feed FH or any other type of fish for that matter is: NLS.

I also disagree with your stament that nobody cares about what we have to say. Is obvious that even you care and have listened since you have now included NLS in your FH's diet when at first you were only considering Grand Sumo and Chingmix. What about XO why don't you feed your FH that? Worried about the possiblity of hormones and/or artificial colorants?:ROFL:
 
If the manufacturer of the xo food is involved in fish dyeing and tattooing that shows you right there they are not concerned with natural results and healthy fish. I urge everyone to avoid this stuff and not support that crap its aweful.
The chingmix isn't so bad money wise but I've never seen any point in buying it with so many good American made pellets being available at an even better price. I did however buy grand sumo red and growth pellets but have not fed too much of it as I'm concerned about what may be in it.
The next time I have fry to grow out I will put them in two groups and feed each group 1 brand of pellet, probably do nls vs sumo. It can't be hybrids though as the variation from fish to fish is too great.
 
As far as the cost of ChingMix, I was going by the prices they have listed on their website.
http://www.chingmixusa.com/cm-shop.html

Thier "combo" deals cost $52.00 for 500 grams. There are vendors here on MFK that will ship a 5lb pail (2270 grams) of NLS right to your door for $55.00

Do the math.



I posted the folowing in a past discussion involving XO Humpy Head. Make of it what you will ............



I don't have an Ocean Free XO Humpy Head container in front of me so I am going off of what I found off of a well known FH site.


Ingredients:
•special head growth enhancing ingredient -- not specified
•fish protein
•quality white fish meal
•krill
•spirulina
•yolk meal
•wheat germ
•dried yeast
•wheat flour
•antarctic shrimps
•protease
•stable multi-vitamin & mineral
•lecithin
•immune substance
•calcium
•enzyme
•organic minerals

protein 58%
fats 3.8%
fibre 3.7%
ash 13%


The biggest problem I have with this food is the mystery "special head growth enhancing ingredient ", which IMO is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, or hormones. Either way it sends a red flag up for me. And secondly, the mystery fish protein, which I would assume is fish hydrolysate, where quality and nutritional content can vary greatly.

The next issue I have with this food is the protein content, which is extremely excessive for a FH, or any species of cichlid, even those designated as strict carnivores. (which FH are not)

Again, more marketing for those who are either totally ignorant as to a FH's nutritional needs, or for those who simply don't care & are under the illusion that massive amounts of protein equate to BIG fish, with BIG humps. I see the exact same thing with Asian discus breeders, who have no concern about the longevity of their fish, only how fast that they can pump them up.

I certainly wouldn't feed it to any of my fish.


There is no argument that Ocean Free is a very popular FH food in SE Asia.

That doesn't mean that anyone in their right mind should be feeding a fish classified as an omnivore 60% protein, at any stage of their life. I'm not knocking the quality of all of their various FH formulas (I counted 8 different formulas), just the one mentioned in this discussion as it clearly has an excessive amount of protein in it. I don't have ingredient listings or guaranteed analysis for their various other so called specialty FH foods, so I can't comment on them.

Ocean Free is popular due to the mass marketing by the corporation that sells their products, Qian Hu Corp. This is a major publicly held company that answers to shareholders, not the general public. They sell thousands of both aquatic & non aquatic pet products, fish food is only a small portion of the companies overall business, but their food is very well promoted, and very accessible to anyone living in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, China, and more recently the UK. If the LFS gets a major discount for in store use, along the lines of what Hagen & other large companies offer retail stores, and these stores sell these products, then of course they are going to promote it, and recommend it to anyone that walks through their door. And not just 1 formula, but 3 or 4 formulas for maximum color, shine, and large humpy head. Puhleeese.

Seriously, how many people on this forum actually buy into the need to feed their FH 8 different FH formulas in order to get optimum results?
Also, how many people here condone the dying, tattooing, and physical manipulation of fish sold in the hobby, such as the fish shown below. Apparently the owners of Ocean Free (Qian Hu) have no issue with it.

tatoo-con.jpg


Qian Hu is in the business of selling anything that can be sold, to which they have done a remarkable job over the past decade. They are also in partnership with Alife, Hai Feng, and scores of other companies.


Their Mission Statement pretty much says it all. (creating shareholder value)

"We want to create shareholders' value by becoming a world class ornamental fish and accessories company through innovative and quality products and services "
 
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