What do you guys feed your cichlids??

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
JwHiser13 said:
Not to mention the OP asked what people feed there fish and why, he didn't ask for people dogging others opinion because they think everyone in the hobby should use the food they swear by! Lets get back on topic, no one cares to hear all the cut downs and smashing against others opinions and what they feed there fish! All it's going to do is ruin another great thread that could have been useful to a lot of people! You have your favorite that you think is the best just like everyone else. Come on people!!!


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I'm not taking sides rather I'm simply stating facts and weather or not you like RD he is still a expert/professional in the aquatic commercial food business and has been for as long as I've been alive.... Some of his articles are very informative and he wants the best for everyone's fish in the end. That's why he does what he does.

If you don't like what he has to say I suggest using the "ignore" feature!




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Some would say it's purely about cost/profit.
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That's because at the end of the day it is almost always about cost/profit, and from a business perspective there's certainly nothing wrong with that. The only reason any of the research involving terrestrial based plants has even taken place over the past decade is due to the rising cost of fish meal.

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/06/24/fao-predicts-high-fishmeal-prices-in-2013/

http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews...eal-prices-set-to-increase-18-percent-in-2013


Looks like another 18% increase for FM this year.



At some point, something has to give. So either a company raises their prices to meet the rising costs of their raw ingredients, or they begin to use lower cost alternative ingredients. None of these smaller fish food companies that pop up from time to time are making their own food, at their own facilities, which means they are not controlling the sourcing of their raw ingredients, or getting the best value when purchasing. They are at the mercy of a middle man (at the feed mill), and there can be a huge difference between the price a feed mill charges a customer (fish food company) for a ton or two of premium herring meal, and what a company that makes their own food, and buys 50 tons of herring meal at a time directly from the producer. The latter company can buy that much at once due to their global customer base, a smaller upstart company lacks that kind of buying power, and is stuck paying what the feed mill dictates. Cutting out the middle man, building their own facility, and controlling their own destiny is how some fish food manufacturers have been able to not only better their raw ingredient profile, but also maintain the same sticker price as 10 yrs ago. I cannot think of too many items that cost the same today, as they did 10 yrs ago.


Having said that, the research into fishmeal replacement is ongoing, one of the latest areas of research is with insects.

http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/1683/insects-as-animal-feeds


I'm not going to beat a company up because they aren't in the position to match the ingredient profile of the food that I feed, but at the same time just like neutrino I simply refuse to use foods that contain certain lower quality ingredients.
 
RD. said:
That's because at the end of the day it is almost always about cost/profit, and from a business perspective there's certainly nothing wrong with that. The only reason any of the research involving terrestrial based plants has even taken place over the past decade is due to the rising cost of fish meal.
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I agree up to a point. Undoubtedly true in the case of those producing or selling the end product (fish food), but not necessarily true of all the scientists doing the research. Some of them clearly state their environmental concerns, though others are basically working in the interests of agribusiness and primarily interested in expanding the market for their products. Same as other fields that involve the environment, food supply, big business, etc. where motive and point of view varies.

IMO the trouble with some of the study done attempting to validate using this or that starch or grain product is you can select the baseline diet in such a way as to make the experimental ingredient (soy or whatever) look better than it would look if compared to a higher quality feed or to a true wild diet. My own food testing, while not as technical or sophisticated as aquaculture scientists, demonstrated better results with less starch/grain.

Insect article is interesting. Apparently, FAO being a UN organization, a little different perspective than research done in the interests of or sponsored by the agribusiness giants in certain countries. (I don't know of any major corporate interests for insect harvesting. :naughty: )
 
Yes, totally agree - it's just that the vast majority of the funding for this type of research that has taken place over the past 20 odd years or so, has come from aquaculture producers and those who have a vested interest in this area of research. (such as corn & soy groups) I have no doubt that there are also scientists (and others) working in this area that have different motivations, such as environmental concerns.


IMO the trouble with some of the study done attempting to validate using this or that starch or grain product is you can select the baseline diet in such a way as to make the experimental ingredient (soy or whatever) look better than it would look if compared to a higher quality feed or to a true wild diet.
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Exactly, a very good point. I have seen this time & time again in numerous aquaculture studies that have taken place over the years. One also has to factor in that those studies do not typically run for years, generally they last only a few weeks - which doesn't tell a hobbyist much in the way of safety over the lifetime of their fish. The results from a 30 day feed trial might appear to be fantastic on paper, but fail miserably if those same fish were kept on that diet long term. With the feed costs for many commercial fish farms now being 60-70% of their total operating cost, they have great motivation for reformulating their feed, and using less costly protein substitutes.


Ironically even some of those lower cost sources of protein etc, have risen significantly in price over the years, including soybeans and corn. Poultry by-products today, grasshopper meal tomorrow?
 
RD. said:
.................................. Poultry by-products today, grasshopper meal tomorrow?
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In fish food, I'd rather see insects listed than corn, soy, poultry, etc. At least they are part of the natural diet of wild fish. As long as it was just "an" ingredient and the overall nutritional profile was still good.
 
Members: I'd like to know which foods you have found to have the highest spirulina content, and still being eagerly eaten by your fish?
Looking for nutritious veggie content. I consider peas to be only a source of fiber.
 
In fish food, I'd rather see insects listed than corn, soy, poultry, etc. At least they are part of the natural diet of wild fish. As long as it was just "an" ingredient and the overall nutritional profile was still good.
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I agree ......
 
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