what is all the cycling about!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter bethie_dawn
- Start date
i could do the same
but your a mod so you can cheat and fix all of your post and make me look stupid anyways
Prehaps we couId add an on-line speel chekker ?
We all no that a bnuch of us read & post when we snould be werking & have two get teh posts out quick. Spealing iz sumtymes secundairy.
But we do get our points accross.
I do understand that the search function needs to work too, but I don't allways have the time to read a post over either.
(Stepping off my soap box now)
We all no that a bnuch of us read & post when we snould be werking & have two get teh posts out quick. Spealing iz sumtymes secundairy.
But we do get our points accross.
I do understand that the search function needs to work too, but I don't allways have the time to read a post over either.
(Stepping off my soap box now)
read this, it will help ALOT. gave me a full understanding of why cycling tanks is so important.
How Mother Nature cleans house
by: Alan Ruben The Nitrogen Cycle
reinerated by: Jay F.
First published in The Daphnian, Boston Aquarium Society, Winter 2002
Aquarticles
Lets start off really basic. How far you get along into this is up to you.
Fish make Waste - Bacteria get rid of Waste.
Complex enough for you? OK, we can get a little more specific.
Fish produce Ammonia(NH3) as the majority of their waste. Ammonia is toxic to fish so we wouldn't want that to build up in our aquarium. Luckily, there are types of bacteria that use Ammonia as part of their metabolism.
They use up the available Ammonia and convert it to a compound known as Nitrite(NO2). So, all is safe and sound, right?
No. Unfortunately, Nitrite is also very toxic to fish.
Bummer.
Now it happens to be that another type of bacteria come along and use this Nitrite in their metabolism. They scrounge up all the Nitrite they can find and convert it to a compound known as Nitrate(NO3). So all is safe and sound?
YES! Well for the time being...
Nitrate is MUCH less toxic than either Ammonia or Nitrite but should not be allowed to build up. SO...the way to keep the Nitrate level down is...Water Changing.
I knew you didn't want to hear that but that's the way it is. For the majority of aquariums, water changing is just part of the scenery. No way around it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something (in my not so humble opinion).
Got the concept? Want more specifics? Are you sure? Ok, you asked for it.
When first setting up an aquarium, the tank and all of the folderol inside of it are relatively clean and free of bacteria, especially the kinds that we want. An aquarium takes time to establish a colony of "bugs" to get at the nasty wastes. This is what we call a Bacteria Bed, or also a Bio-Filter
1. A new aquarium gets set up. (assume water etc. is ok)
2. Fish get introduced.
3. Fish get fed ( I would hope).
4. Fish swim happily in enjoyment of their new home.
5. Fish produce waste.
6. Ammonia from the waste starts to build up (TOXIC).
7. Bacteria start growing that use Ammonia.
8. Ammonia level starts to drop as Nitrite level builds (TOXIC).
9. Bacteria start growing that use Nitrite.
10. Nitrite level starts to drop as Nitrate level slowly rises (Much less Toxic)
11. Aquarist (that's you) keeps Nitrate levels in check by doing weekly, partial water changes.
12. Aquarist enjoys years of happy fish keeping and goes on to win the Nobel Prize.
Well, you never know... The point of this is, that the "break in cycle" takes some time to get going. A new tank isn't ready for a full load of fish because the Bio-Filter hasn't built up yet. Go slowly. Good things come to those who wait.
Had enough? Up for more? We can get more technical...ok then.
The types of bacteria that go through this Nitrogen Cycle are known as Aerobic Bacteria. Simply put, this means that they use Oxygen in their daily lives to do all the wonderful things they do. Without Oxygen, they cannot live. (Sound familiar?). They grow on surfaces in the aquarium. On the walls, gravel, decor, filter materials etc.
The best way to get these Aerobic bacteria to grow is to give them plenty of oxygen by having well aerated water AND to give them plenty of places to grow.
For many years, it was thought that Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter were the primary culprits in this dance of waste management in the aquarium. Recent research by Dr. Tim Hovanec of Aquaria/Marineland in California has shown that we may have been mistaken for all these years.
Now there's lots more that can be said on this subject, but I am tired and I think my Pizza might be here. Also do some web searching. There are many great resources out there. If you really want to rock your world, go out and get "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. Then take everything I just said and turn it inside out!
Well, not really, but you'll see.
Now go get some fish!
------------------------------------------Here it is again in technical terminology-------------------------------------------------------------------
The first few weeks of a new aquarium are crucial to its success. Before we think about buying fish to add to our tanks, we must first prepare the "house" for them. An aquarium is a miniature living world, and to prepare the house means to establish in this little world all the necessary biology, which will allow a healthy life for the major inhabitants in this small and enclosed realm. Fish wastes, leftover food, and all other organic matter that accumulate in a tank don´t just simply disappear like magic. They are decomposed by microorganisms, often resulting in toxic substances. But since nature is wise, there are also creatures that want nothing else than to transform these decomposed substances into new compounds that can be used by other creatures. One of the most important classes of compounds that result from decomposition are the nitrogen-based substances, and the process through which they are gradually transformed is called the Nitrogen Cycle.
How and who makes these transformations? They are microscopic beings called nitrifying bacteria, whose role in nature is that of decomposers of nitrogen compounds. When we set up a new tank, these bacteria only exist in very small numbers (those few that happend to come with the water, with the gravel, etc). Therefore it is fundamental. in the first few weeks, to make this bacterial colony multiply until it reaches a population such that it can process the fish wastes to come. Thus, we depend on the formation of a good nitrifying bacterial colony in order to ensure a healthy life in our aquarium. In fishkeeping jargon, this initial period of colony formation is known as cycling the tank. A tank will only be ready to receive the main fish population when it is properly cycled. This process normally takes between 2 and 6 weeks to complete.
Let´s understand how this cycle works. Nitrogen (N) is a chemical element that goes into the composition of two very important classes of organic molecules: proteins and nucleic acids. Although it is present in great quantities in the air, in the form of nitrogen gas (N2), few living beings can assimilate it in this form. Only a special class of bacteria, mainly cianobacteria (which is often called blue-green algae), are able to capture N2, using it in the sinthesis of nitrogen-based organic molecules. These bacteria are called nitrogen fixers. They end up being eaten by other organisms, who in turn get eaten by other animals, and so on until the nitrogen compounds are spread throughout the entire ecosystem.
When these nitrogen compounds are released (death of an organism, or part of it, or through its excrements), they are processed by decomposing bacteria, and one of the main products of this decomposing is Ammonia Gas (NH3). Ammonia, in contact with water, forms Ammonium Hydroxide (NH4OH), a highly toxic substance which in large concentrations is highly corrosive. Ammonia is a very dangerous substance for fish, and its toxicity depends on temperature, pH, and water salinity. For instance, the more acid the pH, more Ammonium Hydroxide is neutralized and so the ammonia toxicity is reduced. On the other hand, more alkaline pH means more dangerous Ammonia. Luckily, this substance is consumed by bacteria called Nitrosomonas, which in the presence of Oxygen transform Ammonia into Nitrite (NO2-), obtaining energy through the following process:
2 NH3 + 3 O2 ----> 2 HNO2 + 2 H2O + Energy
The HNO2 (nitrous acid) also gets dissolved in water, releasing the nitrite ion (NO2-). Nitrite is another highly toxic substance for plants and animals, but luckily again it doesn´t accumulate in a well set up tank, because bacteria called Nitrobacter transform it into Nitrate (NO3-), also obtaining energy through the reaction:
2 HNO2 + O2 ----> 2 HNO3 + Energy
Only now, our nitrogen which started in the decomposing organic molecules has finally assumed a much less toxic form. In the aquarium, Nitrate begins to slowly accumulate as a result of this process. But we shouldn´t let it accumulate too much because it may lead to excessive growth of algae which use it as a nutrient. To avoid this, we do regular partial water changes and, better yet, add natural plants to the tank, because nitrate is readily consumed by them. In fact, plants are also good consumers of ammonia, and therefore very helpful in keeping this toxin under control.
The nitrifying bacteria will become fixed in any location where there´s a good supply of oxygen (since the main process of the cycle is aerobic, i.e., in the presence of oxygen). However, the colonies will prosper in places where there isn´t too much light, and where the water current doesn´t disturb them too much. This is the most important part of the Nitrogen Cycle in terms of fishkeeping, but actually it doesn´t stop here. As an example, if oxygen runs short in the water, Nitrate can be transformed back into Nitrite or, through a process called denitrifying, it can be transformed by anaerobic bacteria back into nitrogen gas (N2), and the cycle is complete.
Now that we know how the Nitrogen Cycle works, we may better inderstand how to proceed in a new aquarium, to ensure a healthy environment for our fish. The colonization process of these bacteria occurs without any necessary intervention. All they need is a source of organic matter. Once the tank is set up, filled with water and the filters turned on, we need to supply a little bit of ammonia to start the cycling process. Sometimes the tap water itself already contains ammonia, but in general it´s better to add some kind of incentive. Once again, a great way to start is by adding natural plants. Their own metabolism and the few leaves that fall off supply the initial nitrogen, and as we´ve already mentioned they help by preventing the ammonia level from getting too high. But you can also add a small pinch of flake food, or a very small slice of fish or shrimp, and there are several commercial products in the market which stimulate the cycle. Another good procedure is to use some gravel and/or water from an established tank, as long as you´re sure that tank is healthy.
Another very common procedure is to use "cycling fish" to accelerate the process. 2 or 3 hardy fish are added (Zebra Danios, for instance) to live in the tank while it´s going through the cycling process. But this is not the best solution because you´re submitting these fish to unnecessary stress. The ideal thing to do is buy a complete Freshwater Test Kit (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and follow the ups and downs of ammonia and nitrite levels. When nitrite falls to zero after having gone up, the tank is ready to begin receiving fish. But even so the fish population should be added gradually, in order to allow the bacterial colony to adapt and grow according to the increased bioload.
BY: unknown (Marcos Avila)
How Mother Nature cleans house
by: Alan Ruben The Nitrogen Cycle
reinerated by: Jay F.
First published in The Daphnian, Boston Aquarium Society, Winter 2002
Aquarticles
Lets start off really basic. How far you get along into this is up to you.
Fish make Waste - Bacteria get rid of Waste.
Complex enough for you? OK, we can get a little more specific.
Fish produce Ammonia(NH3) as the majority of their waste. Ammonia is toxic to fish so we wouldn't want that to build up in our aquarium. Luckily, there are types of bacteria that use Ammonia as part of their metabolism.
They use up the available Ammonia and convert it to a compound known as Nitrite(NO2). So, all is safe and sound, right?
No. Unfortunately, Nitrite is also very toxic to fish.
Bummer.
Now it happens to be that another type of bacteria come along and use this Nitrite in their metabolism. They scrounge up all the Nitrite they can find and convert it to a compound known as Nitrate(NO3). So all is safe and sound?
YES! Well for the time being...
Nitrate is MUCH less toxic than either Ammonia or Nitrite but should not be allowed to build up. SO...the way to keep the Nitrate level down is...Water Changing.
I knew you didn't want to hear that but that's the way it is. For the majority of aquariums, water changing is just part of the scenery. No way around it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something (in my not so humble opinion).
Got the concept? Want more specifics? Are you sure? Ok, you asked for it.
When first setting up an aquarium, the tank and all of the folderol inside of it are relatively clean and free of bacteria, especially the kinds that we want. An aquarium takes time to establish a colony of "bugs" to get at the nasty wastes. This is what we call a Bacteria Bed, or also a Bio-Filter
1. A new aquarium gets set up. (assume water etc. is ok)
2. Fish get introduced.
3. Fish get fed ( I would hope).
4. Fish swim happily in enjoyment of their new home.
5. Fish produce waste.
6. Ammonia from the waste starts to build up (TOXIC).
7. Bacteria start growing that use Ammonia.
8. Ammonia level starts to drop as Nitrite level builds (TOXIC).
9. Bacteria start growing that use Nitrite.
10. Nitrite level starts to drop as Nitrate level slowly rises (Much less Toxic)
11. Aquarist (that's you) keeps Nitrate levels in check by doing weekly, partial water changes.
12. Aquarist enjoys years of happy fish keeping and goes on to win the Nobel Prize.
Well, you never know... The point of this is, that the "break in cycle" takes some time to get going. A new tank isn't ready for a full load of fish because the Bio-Filter hasn't built up yet. Go slowly. Good things come to those who wait.
Had enough? Up for more? We can get more technical...ok then.
The types of bacteria that go through this Nitrogen Cycle are known as Aerobic Bacteria. Simply put, this means that they use Oxygen in their daily lives to do all the wonderful things they do. Without Oxygen, they cannot live. (Sound familiar?). They grow on surfaces in the aquarium. On the walls, gravel, decor, filter materials etc.
The best way to get these Aerobic bacteria to grow is to give them plenty of oxygen by having well aerated water AND to give them plenty of places to grow.
For many years, it was thought that Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter were the primary culprits in this dance of waste management in the aquarium. Recent research by Dr. Tim Hovanec of Aquaria/Marineland in California has shown that we may have been mistaken for all these years.
Now there's lots more that can be said on this subject, but I am tired and I think my Pizza might be here. Also do some web searching. There are many great resources out there. If you really want to rock your world, go out and get "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad. Then take everything I just said and turn it inside out!
Well, not really, but you'll see.
Now go get some fish!
------------------------------------------Here it is again in technical terminology-------------------------------------------------------------------
The first few weeks of a new aquarium are crucial to its success. Before we think about buying fish to add to our tanks, we must first prepare the "house" for them. An aquarium is a miniature living world, and to prepare the house means to establish in this little world all the necessary biology, which will allow a healthy life for the major inhabitants in this small and enclosed realm. Fish wastes, leftover food, and all other organic matter that accumulate in a tank don´t just simply disappear like magic. They are decomposed by microorganisms, often resulting in toxic substances. But since nature is wise, there are also creatures that want nothing else than to transform these decomposed substances into new compounds that can be used by other creatures. One of the most important classes of compounds that result from decomposition are the nitrogen-based substances, and the process through which they are gradually transformed is called the Nitrogen Cycle.
How and who makes these transformations? They are microscopic beings called nitrifying bacteria, whose role in nature is that of decomposers of nitrogen compounds. When we set up a new tank, these bacteria only exist in very small numbers (those few that happend to come with the water, with the gravel, etc). Therefore it is fundamental. in the first few weeks, to make this bacterial colony multiply until it reaches a population such that it can process the fish wastes to come. Thus, we depend on the formation of a good nitrifying bacterial colony in order to ensure a healthy life in our aquarium. In fishkeeping jargon, this initial period of colony formation is known as cycling the tank. A tank will only be ready to receive the main fish population when it is properly cycled. This process normally takes between 2 and 6 weeks to complete.
Let´s understand how this cycle works. Nitrogen (N) is a chemical element that goes into the composition of two very important classes of organic molecules: proteins and nucleic acids. Although it is present in great quantities in the air, in the form of nitrogen gas (N2), few living beings can assimilate it in this form. Only a special class of bacteria, mainly cianobacteria (which is often called blue-green algae), are able to capture N2, using it in the sinthesis of nitrogen-based organic molecules. These bacteria are called nitrogen fixers. They end up being eaten by other organisms, who in turn get eaten by other animals, and so on until the nitrogen compounds are spread throughout the entire ecosystem.
When these nitrogen compounds are released (death of an organism, or part of it, or through its excrements), they are processed by decomposing bacteria, and one of the main products of this decomposing is Ammonia Gas (NH3). Ammonia, in contact with water, forms Ammonium Hydroxide (NH4OH), a highly toxic substance which in large concentrations is highly corrosive. Ammonia is a very dangerous substance for fish, and its toxicity depends on temperature, pH, and water salinity. For instance, the more acid the pH, more Ammonium Hydroxide is neutralized and so the ammonia toxicity is reduced. On the other hand, more alkaline pH means more dangerous Ammonia. Luckily, this substance is consumed by bacteria called Nitrosomonas, which in the presence of Oxygen transform Ammonia into Nitrite (NO2-), obtaining energy through the following process:
2 NH3 + 3 O2 ----> 2 HNO2 + 2 H2O + Energy
The HNO2 (nitrous acid) also gets dissolved in water, releasing the nitrite ion (NO2-). Nitrite is another highly toxic substance for plants and animals, but luckily again it doesn´t accumulate in a well set up tank, because bacteria called Nitrobacter transform it into Nitrate (NO3-), also obtaining energy through the reaction:
2 HNO2 + O2 ----> 2 HNO3 + Energy
Only now, our nitrogen which started in the decomposing organic molecules has finally assumed a much less toxic form. In the aquarium, Nitrate begins to slowly accumulate as a result of this process. But we shouldn´t let it accumulate too much because it may lead to excessive growth of algae which use it as a nutrient. To avoid this, we do regular partial water changes and, better yet, add natural plants to the tank, because nitrate is readily consumed by them. In fact, plants are also good consumers of ammonia, and therefore very helpful in keeping this toxin under control.
The nitrifying bacteria will become fixed in any location where there´s a good supply of oxygen (since the main process of the cycle is aerobic, i.e., in the presence of oxygen). However, the colonies will prosper in places where there isn´t too much light, and where the water current doesn´t disturb them too much. This is the most important part of the Nitrogen Cycle in terms of fishkeeping, but actually it doesn´t stop here. As an example, if oxygen runs short in the water, Nitrate can be transformed back into Nitrite or, through a process called denitrifying, it can be transformed by anaerobic bacteria back into nitrogen gas (N2), and the cycle is complete.
Now that we know how the Nitrogen Cycle works, we may better inderstand how to proceed in a new aquarium, to ensure a healthy environment for our fish. The colonization process of these bacteria occurs without any necessary intervention. All they need is a source of organic matter. Once the tank is set up, filled with water and the filters turned on, we need to supply a little bit of ammonia to start the cycling process. Sometimes the tap water itself already contains ammonia, but in general it´s better to add some kind of incentive. Once again, a great way to start is by adding natural plants. Their own metabolism and the few leaves that fall off supply the initial nitrogen, and as we´ve already mentioned they help by preventing the ammonia level from getting too high. But you can also add a small pinch of flake food, or a very small slice of fish or shrimp, and there are several commercial products in the market which stimulate the cycle. Another good procedure is to use some gravel and/or water from an established tank, as long as you´re sure that tank is healthy.
Another very common procedure is to use "cycling fish" to accelerate the process. 2 or 3 hardy fish are added (Zebra Danios, for instance) to live in the tank while it´s going through the cycling process. But this is not the best solution because you´re submitting these fish to unnecessary stress. The ideal thing to do is buy a complete Freshwater Test Kit (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and follow the ups and downs of ammonia and nitrite levels. When nitrite falls to zero after having gone up, the tank is ready to begin receiving fish. But even so the fish population should be added gradually, in order to allow the bacterial colony to adapt and grow according to the increased bioload.
BY: unknown (Marcos Avila)
DarthLungFish found something...
I just got in off the net, I hope this helps!
Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium
Getting Your Fish Tank Up and Running with Minimal Headaches
What is Cycling?
Cycling your tank is probably something that you have never heard of unless you have been paying attention to the *.aquaria news groups, you have several friends with tanks, or you are working with a fairly good pet shop. The effects of the cycling process are sometimes referred to as "New Tank Syndrome."
"Cycling the tank" means that you are establishing a bacteria bed in your biological filter to remove the toxins that the fish's metabolism creates. There are right and wrong ways to do this, and several things you can do to slow this process (which you don't want to do). There are two steps to cycling, but you don't have to do anything special for either of them. First, your filter will grow a culture of bacteria that digest ammonia and turn it into Nitrite (which is more toxic than the ammonia in hard water or water with a higher pH), then your filter produces bacteria that digest Nitrite and turn it into relatively harmless Nitrate. However, Nitrate will contribute to loss of appetite and stress in your fish, as well as contributing to algae growth, so it is important to do regular small water changes to keep your tank in best condition. Read more on water changes while the tank is cycling.
How Do I Cycle MY Tank?
You should cycle your tank with a small number of fish. They should be hearty fish, and something that you will want to have in your tank in the long run. Do not cycle your tank with lots of feeder goldfish. Do not cycle your tank with any goldfish unless you intend to keep goldfish. Unfortunately many pet shops suggest this. If you want to know why, you could review my no goldfish page.
What Fish Should I Use?
For a tank of small community fish, White Clouds or Zebra Danios are good cycling fish; Cherry Barbs or Tiger Barbs are good for a slightly more aggressive tank; or Pseudotropheus zebra is a good choice for an African Cichlid tank. Your local pet shop should be able to point you toward some hardy fish of the type you are looking to keep. Purchase a small number (the number will depend on the size of your aquarium and type of fish and -to a lesser degree- the type of filter) of these fish and introduce them to yourtank. For a ten to twenty gallon tank, two or three small schooling fish or one small cichlid would be more than sufficient. Let the tank sit for a couple of days, feeding your fish carefully to prevent excess food from decaying and fouling the water. There are several reasons that you do not want to cycle your tank with a large number of fish, here are a few:
Every couple of days, do a 10%-15% water change, and after about a week, take a sample of your water to a fish store to get it tested. Most pet shops will test fresh water for a minimal fee, or even for free! If the store you got the fish from won't, check to see if there is another local store that will. At this point, your water should test with high ammonia and maybe a trace of nitrite. If it isn't, don't worry. Just give the tank time. The cycling process usually takes four to eight weeks.
- Cycling a tank with many fish will produce a lot more waste, which will be stressful to your fish, resulting in higher die-off and greater susceptibility to disease.
- Cycling with a large number of fish will increase water problems incurred during the cycling process.
- Cycling with a lot of fish can contribute to a foul smell coming from the tank.
After about eight weeks, your ammonia and Nitrite levels should be acceptable (about trace levels), and you can add more fish. Do not add more fish until the ammonia and Nitrite levels have both dropped. Remember to add new fish a few at a time to prevent over-stressing the filter. If you add too many at once, your tank will have to cycle again, yet if you add a few at a time, your bacteria growth rate will just increase for a short time, with minimal effect on your fish.
What if I am Still Having Problems?
If, after six to eight weeks of cycling, your ammonia and nitrite levels aren't satisfactory, you need to trouble shoot your situation.
Cycling the tank takes between two and eight weeks depending on several factors including:
- Did you treat the water you added to the tank to remove chlorine and chloramine? If you didn't the chlorine you added to the tank may have killed the bacteria who were trying to start the filter. Or the ammonia in the chloramine could be more than your new bacteria colony can handle.
- Did you do water changes regularly? This will remove excess waste before it kills the fish or the bacteria.
- Did you do moderate (10%-15%) water changes rather than large (20%-50%) water changes? Large water changes will stress the bacteria and fish, causing inadequate filtration, as well as removing the ammonia and nitrite the bacteria are trying to metabolize.
What about Chemicals?
- Amount of ammonia in water for bacteria to digest
- Availability of bacteria in atmosphere to colonize filter
- Frequency and relative amount of water changes
- Reliability of source of waste (ammonia and nitrite)
- Amount of excess decaying matter in tank (dead fish, extra food, plant leaves, etc.)
- Presence of toxins/anti-bacterial agents/sanitation chemicals in tank water
- Use of chemicals to remove ammonia from the water.
You should not need to use any chemical to stop unwanted increases in ammonia levels. Your biological filter should take care of that for you. If you have ammonia problems after the tank has cycled, then your tank is overpopulated, under-filtered or overfed. Ammonia in the tank is a sign of a problem, not something that is easily treated with a chemical. Use of a chemical to remove ammonia will very often result in starvation of your biological filter leading to more ammonia problems and meaning that you will need to cycle the tank again. Remember, if your ammonia levels are high, you need to treat the problem that is causing the high ammonia levels, not the ammonia itself, which is just a symptom.
I recommend against using a bacteria booster or any kind of chemical when cycling your tank. These tend to leave you with a less stable tank in the long run. A tank cycled slowly and carefully with a few fish will usually cycle in four to eight weeks. A tank cycled with a bacteria booster or chemical supplements will take between two days and eight months to cycle, usually completing the cycle at about eight weeks, and these tanks usually do not stabilize for about six months after the last treatment. Do not use these products if you want a stable, easy to care for tank.
If you are just thinking about getting your first aquarium, you might want to start with some simple steps to a successful aquarium.
The Web-page I got this from is below/Sited:
http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php
i could do the same
but your a mod so you can cheat and fix all of your post and make me look stupid anyways
I could do the same.
But you're a mod. so you can cheat and fix all of your posts and make me look stupid anyway.
I'm done now.
Back to my normal shoddy grammar
I could do the same.
But you're a mod. so you can cheat and fix all of your posts and make me look stupid anyway.
I'm done now.
Back to my normal shoddy grammar
LOLOLOLOL!!
