What size sump for 200 gallon?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
The science has been done over and over on media. Pumice is cheap sure but bio filtration wise, it's bottom of the barrel. If you aren't fluidizing 30ppi sponge is as good as you'll get. Plastic pot scrubbies are right up there with sponge but while cheaper are near impossible to clean. If you are really looking to go cost effective I've got tons of bio balls and ceramic rings I'll let you have for $5 and $10 a cubic foot.
Edit to attach a chart from aquariumscience.org
You are welcome to use what ever media you can afford just don't buy into manufacturer hype and know that commercial aquaculture and sewage treatment have been doing this kind of research for ever.
7.1.4.-filter-biomedia-efficiency-8b.jpg
 
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Disturbed.) said:
Pumice is cheap yeah but bio filtration wise it's bottom of the barrel. If you aren't fluidizing 30ppi sponge is as good as you'll get. Plastic pot scrubbies are right up there with sponge but while cheaper are near impossible to clean. If you are really looking to go cost effective I've got tons of bio balls and ceramic rings I'll let you have for $5 and $10 a cubic foot
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Hmmm calling pumice "bottom of the barrel" and then trying to sell some bio balls a couple sentences later makes me suspicious for some strange reason.

Seriously though, why all the hate for pumice? I've seen large, beautiful setups utilizing pumice for bio. Is there something definitive that we can refer to that would establish pumice as inferior in cultivating bacteria to other options????
 
Danh said:
pumice sucks...
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Best thing since sliced bread.

You get a dry piece of pumice, and it floats. For a few days or even a few weeks. Then it sinks. So it does use all of its porosity. Aerobic bacteria nearer the surface and anaerobic deeper inside. Actually gets rid of nitrates too.
 
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My point was that you can basically have all the media I've collected from buying used gear if you pay to ship it. and Yes the scientific research has been done over and over that pumice doesn't have the surface area per cubic inch that coarse foam does and studies have been done on how much ammonia differnt medias actually consume per cubic foot. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bash pumice as a media. It works, its just no where near as effective. And if your you are going to buy media, pumice is way more cost effective and even better than ceramic rings.
 
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That chart is interesting, although I wonder exactly how they calculate "effective" surface area as being distinct from just plain ol' surface area. According to the chart, fluidized K1 has more than twice as much effective surface area as K1 just sitting in a media bag in the sump; how does that work?

It's also interesting to see how some of the expensive media like Biohome and Matrix...kinda suck in the surface area department.

Here's the thing about sumps: even a small sump has much more volume than the largest typical canister filter. If you insist upon using a canister, it makes sense to pay attention to the biomedia you use, to ensure the maximum surface area possible within the very limited volume you have to work with. But if you have a sump, you have a relatively vast volume to work with, so even the lowest-ranking media on that chart will still provide you with more than enough surface area for your purposes.

So asking what size of sump you need or what size is optimal is really meaningless. People manage to make do with tiny canisters; literally any size container used for a sump is adequate. As celebrist celebrist said, the bigger the better since more water volume is always a good thing, and big sumps give you more elbow room to work in them and more space for things like heaters and pumps.

And, yes, I agree...pumice sucks. :) Compared to many media it is heavy and awkward to move and clean. Even the worst media on that chart will work in a sump because of the sheer volume you have...so I would choose something cheap (because I'm cheap) and lightweight (to make cleaning easier). Potscrubbers are probably great if you can buy them dirt cheap; I use plastic shotshell reloading wads, which cost a couple bucks per cubic foot, weigh almost nothing, last forever, rinse off easily with a hose and just do everything I need a biomedium to do very well.
 
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Disturbed.) said:
Static k1 has less area because it clogs up. Fluidized k1 is effectively always clean and it's surface is always completely available for LIVING bacteria to colonize.
On a side note I am also extremely cheap. You'll notice I didn't offer to give away any of my lava rock :headbang2
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Yes, I realize that fluidized is better for that reason; just puzzled as to how they can assign a hard and fast number to the difference. Attempts to rigidly quantify properties like this is one of the things that makes me very suspicious of such charts and comparisons. :)

And I think it works out very well for us regarding our choices in biomedia; you don't offer up any of your lava rock...and I don't want any! :)
 
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Lava rock and pumice work. Sure. Pot scrubbies work. Gravel works. If I have the money to buy another tank, I will also have the money to not use lava rock or pumice. I've used lava rock. i have SOME now. I've used bio balls. I've used scrubbies. I will not get another tank without k1.

All of those are nearly impossible to clean. Regardless of how impossible they are.... THEY NEED CLEANING... you may choose not to do it, which is fine... but they build up detritus and also through normal use, lose surface area. And that happens QUICKLY. K1 never needs to be cleaned because it doesn't build up detritus. I've seen real issues from sump build up... even when the media was in bags. K1 is just the way to go.... You could also use an fx or a hob if you really wanted to....
 
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