What would you pay?

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The problem with tanzaniae is that the vast majority of fish keepers don't know what they are yet. Everyone seems to still want either goliath or vittatus. Personally, I think tanzaniae is the most beautiful species of the whole group. If you get someone who realizes just what you have there, I think your odds are pretty good of making a decent amount of money off of him. A lot of aquarists might be put off by the fact that its something they've likely never heard of. Keep in mind that TATF has only been firmly ID'd in the hobby for a little less than a year.

I'm inclined to agree with the others though: a big, healthy, beautiful TATF should probably command a premium price.



No worries man. I just look forward to seeing more. :thumbsup:

I hadn't heard of them either until this one popped up. Cost me a pretty penny as well. I've had it since December and it was around 7"

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Rob, can you elaborate on Tatf showing "wild type" color?

Is this duller then "aquarium type" color? And do you have speculation on the reason for the difference?
 
Rob, can you elaborate on Tatf showing "wild type" color?

Is this duller then "aquarium type" color? And do you have speculation on the reason for the difference?

I most certainly can. Forgive me as I ramble...

In the wild, the vast majority of tanzaniae caught and posted online are by Tourette's Fishing service. These guys offer TATF fishing trips to the same, closely guarded secret locations at the same time every year. These fish are caught in crystal clear, shallow water in river headwaters that have white, sandy substrate. These are the fish that we see in pictures that are grey, have faded stripes and have strange mixes of greens, blues and bronzes in them with a little red on the tail. They also tend to more often than not have a blue adipose fin. This is what I refer to as wild type.

Some people, either through accident or intent, manage to simulate this coloration in the aquarium. I've found that a lot of these tanks are brightly illuminated, have a lighter colored substrate and often have a blue background. In order to get what I call wild type coloration, you must do your best to simulate the environment from which the blue TATFs are being caught. I feel that the blue background is vitally important to this because it simulates the blue color of open water thanks to the combination of the effects of Rayleigh scattering and intrinsic absorption of certain parts of the electromagnetic spectrum by water.

A large portion of the problem we run into is that every ATF that people catch while fishing that I suspect is a tanzaniae that isn't showing 'wild type' colors is labeled as a vittatus. We need to keep in mind that tanzaniae is a daughter lineage to vittatus genetically. Vittatus underwent allopatric speciation thanks to the same tectonic activities that created the rift valleys; this speciation event is what created tanzaniae. It is fair to think of tanzaniae as a Vittatus Mk. II Heavy Assault Fish. In other words, it's a VATF trying it's damnedest to be a GATF. With how little fishing pressure has been applied to TATF and with how recently this pressure started (only about ten years ago), I truly expect to see a 30-40 or even more pound TATF pop up someday (BATF too, for that matter; same story).

But I digress. My point was that TATF is directly evolved from VATF and still looks very much like one to the untrained eye. In fact, while all of the other ATF species were identified and named in the early to mid 1800s, tanzaniae wasn't recognized as unique until 1986. Such is the similarity to vittatus! Most fishermen label TATF as vittatus because of the fact that they just don't know any better. I've found quite a few fish that I think are wild caught TATF that have vittatus like colors, but I can't prove it so I don't post it.

There are actually documented accounts in the hobby of tanzaniae who are showing wild type colors in a tank like the tank described above as being the ideal place for it to happen later being placed into a dark substrate, black background, dimly lit tank and starting to show VATF like colors.

It appears at this time that one can actually choose how they 'dress' their tanzaniae. :) I've noticed a similar phenomenon in VATF as well, though its not as dramatic.

Edit-

Both of these fish were supposedly caught from the same river at different times of the year by the same guide service. Note the difference in the water level and the clothing of the anglers...

Tigerfish_Fishing_Holidays_Tanzania_1.jpg

567456.jpg

Tigerfish_Fishing_Holidays_Tanzania_1.jpg

567456.jpg
 
So completely environmental, and not influenced by diet?

Sounds very similar to rays, they try to blend in, I've ruined Marbles' patterns with black backed, black sand filled tanks, and the colors seem outstanding over white sand, yet black rays wash out over white sand and seem to look best on black.
 
So completely environmental, and not influenced by diet?

Sounds very similar to rays, they try to blend in, I've ruined Marbles' patterns with black backed, black sand filled tanks, and the colors seem outstanding over white sand, yet black rays wash out over white sand and seem to look best on black.

Yes, completely environmental. There's another example of this, too- the 'black' goliath.

different black gatfs.png

I conducted an experiment on this by keeping Max in a blacked out tank with black water as dark as sweet tea. This was the result-

20130410maxteeth.jpg

Striking, no?

Shortly after I carbon'd the water to get the tannins out and put brighter lights back on his tank over the white sand, he looked like an oversized silverside again. It only took about a week for the color to change back. Because of this experiment, I'm pretty convinced that black goliaths don't actually exist; its just a color morph to adapt to their environment. He had that cool black/brown color in the blackwater, but it took water so soaked in tannins that I couldn't enjoy it.

different black gatfs.png

20130410maxteeth.jpg
 
I most certainly can. Forgive me as I ramble...

In the wild, the vast majority of tanzaniae caught and posted online are by Tourette's Fishing service. These guys offer TATF fishing trips to the same, closely guarded secret locations at the same time every year. These fish are caught in crystal clear, shallow water in river headwaters that have white, sandy substrate. These are the fish that we see in pictures that are grey, have faded stripes and have strange mixes of greens, blues and bronzes in them with a little red on the tail. They also tend to more often than not have a blue adipose fin. This is what I refer to as wild type.

Some people, either through accident or intent, manage to simulate this coloration in the aquarium. I've found that a lot of these tanks are brightly illuminated, have a lighter colored substrate and often have a blue background. In order to get what I call wild type coloration, you must do your best to simulate the environment from which the blue TATFs are being caught. I feel that the blue background is vitally important to this because it simulates the blue color of open water thanks to the combination of the effects of Rayleigh scattering and intrinsic absorption of certain parts of the electromagnetic spectrum by water.

A large portion of the problem we run into is that every ATF that people catch while fishing that I suspect is a tanzaniae that isn't showing 'wild type' colors is labeled as a vittatus. We need to keep in mind that tanzaniae is a daughter lineage to vittatus genetically. Vittatus underwent allopatric speciation thanks to the same tectonic activities that created the rift valleys; this speciation event is what created tanzaniae. It is fair to think of tanzaniae as a Vittatus Mk. II Heavy Assault Fish. In other words, it's a VATF trying it's damnedest to be a GATF. With how little fishing pressure has been applied to TATF and with how recently this pressure started (only about ten years ago), I truly expect to see a 30-40 or even more pound TATF pop up someday (BATF too, for that matter; same story).

But I digress. My point was that TATF is directly evolved from VATF and still looks very much like one to the untrained eye. In fact, while all of the other ATF species were identified and named in the early to mid 1800s, tanzaniae wasn't recognized as unique until 1986. Such is the similarity to vittatus! Most fishermen label TATF as vittatus because of the fact that they just don't know any better. I've found quite a few fish that I think are wild caught TATF that have vittatus like colors, but I can't prove it so I don't post it.

There are actually documented accounts in the hobby of tanzaniae who are showing wild type colors in a tank like the tank described above as being the ideal place for it to happen later being placed into a dark substrate, black background, dimly lit tank and starting to show VATF like colors.

It appears at this time that one can actually choose how they 'dress' their tanzaniae. :) I've noticed a similar phenomenon in VATF as well, though its not as dramatic.

Edit-

Both of these fish were supposedly caught from the same river at different times of the year by the same guide service. Note the difference in the water level and the clothing of the anglers...

View attachment 953601

View attachment 953602

That first fish looks crazy.

I can only speak from my experience about the color of this fish. I have a black background and black sand over a light brown/tan tile bottom. Not extremely bright lighting either, two 3' T12 50/50 bulbs. Seems the opposite of what you described. I'm no expert and this is the only TATF that I've seen in person at this size. I've had the fish close to ten months and seem to remember it always liked like this. Although it was flawless when I got it.

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There is a very real chance that there is some intangible factor to all of this that I'm not seeing. The above was my hypothesis anyway.

Once I get mine, I plan to try to test it.
 
There is a very real chance that there is some intangible factor to all of this that I'm not seeing. The above was my hypothesis anyway.

Once I get mine, I plan to try to test it.

Who knows really, one thing I do know is your guess it's better than mine. You research these things, I on the other hand am going by my experience with this one fish.

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Who knows really, one thing I do know is your guess it's better than mine. You research these things, I on the other hand am going by my experience with this one fish.

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And your experience and input goes squarely into my research. I didn't aggregate all of this info on these things entirely on my own. :)
 
If you want to sell it just say that its for sale for $600 with "negotiable" written in brackets next to the price, or even put $700. If it rarely shows up on market ppl wont really know what value to give it because its "rare" at that size. Also writing that the price can be negotiated gives the buyer the illusion of the possibility to save money. If you want minimum $200 for it, and you post it at $500 and get haggled to $350 did you really lose out in the end?


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