Whats the minimum tank size for a single Green Terror?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
I keep my cichlids with multiple females,There is always a ripe female for the needs of the male.
I only keep them like this if space allows.
I have no bullying or constantly harassed females and the fish live out a moderately normal fulfilled existance.
If i wanted to keep an umbie or a dovi I would have to resist as I can't cater for their needs of a relatively normal existance.
A lone fish in a tank with just a flower pot for company that spends most of its time chasing your finger is not living a life anywhere near normal in my eyes.
Better to go with a smaller species so it every need can be met.
 
I keep my cichlids with multiple females,There is always a ripe female for the needs of the male.

Good for you, but you also don't keep many of the species that others here keep, such as the fish mentioned in this thread. Correct? If you did you might understand the concept better. Not all fish are hard wired to be kept in communities, even with multiple females, nor do most fish breed year round in their native waters. And keeping a fish solo certainly doesn't always equate to a fish living alone with a flower pot, and chasing ones finger. Pretty broad brush that you are painting your high and mighty picture with.
 
It's not a high and mighty picture.It's my opinion based on my experience.
I have kept most of the species mentioned in this thread.One of my tanks is currently home to 6 green terrors.I have been keeping c/a and s/a cichlids for around 30 years.
My opinions are based on my own observations from over the years.
I have kept large cichlids on their own before many times in the past. not sure why you have assumed otherwise. I may be new to this forum but I am not new to cichlids or the hobby.
I can't help the way I feel about the welfare of these fish,and yes I do,based on first hand experience believe that lone cichlids live boring unnatural lives.
Most cichlids I can think of are quite gregarious in the wild and are never to far from their own kind.
Amphilophus species from the great crater lakes for example are often found in large numbers.
Something else I have noticed is when cichlids are housed with other cichlids,they don't tend to do all the "wet pet"behavior other than learn to beg for food.Reason being they are more fulfilled by what's going on inside the tank rather than outside.
The main reason for the diversity and success of cichlids is based on their highly instinctive need to mate.Other than feeding, nothing is more important or instinctive to a cichlid than its need to mate.It's what's made them what they are today.Cichlids have adapted all of their characters and behavioural traits due to their breeding strategy. it is a the forefront of what they are.
So I do understand the concept very well thanks.
Understanding the concept is the reason I have these views to begin with.I would not have voiced my opinion without that understanding. That would be foolish.
I personally would not keep a lone cichlid.I have before but would never again.To me it's obvious
They are missing out and it feels wrong.I am not judging anyone that does,thats up to them.
Forums are about sharing views opinions and information. That is all I have done.
Sorry you don't like my opinion but it won't change.
Here is a picture of my tank containing fish mentioned in this thread that I probably have no experience with.
_20150919_200850.JPG
 
Good for you, but you also don't keep many of the species that others here keep, such as the fish mentioned in this thread. Correct?
Dude.... His riv tank is one of the most impressive tanks I've seen here.
 
I have no issue with your opinion, just this portion of your comment, which did take on a high & mighty tone, at least to me.

A lone fish in a tank with just a flower pot for company that spends most of its time chasing your finger is not living a life anywhere near normal in my eyes.

As stated previously, a rather broad brush that you were painting with. Not all lone fish are kept alone with fingers wagging in front of them. Personally I found that to be more than just an opinion, but a rather judgemental snide comment. It's ok to share an opinion, but when it takes on an elitist tone, you've lost me pal.

Not all fish do well in the confines of a glass tank, with other fish, including females. How many times must this be repeated? lol I assumed your experience must be somewhat limited, as this shouldn't come as any real surprise to anyone that has been keeping some of these fish over the long haul.

Even the Amphilophus of the Great Lakes that you referred to, as adults have their own space in nature, beyond the juvenile stage they do not swim in schools, with some kind of social hierarchy, as seen in various other species.

The following is an excerpt from one of George Barlow's papers, who I think has probably spent more time studying these fish in nature, and captivity, than any other person in history.

Leaving aside the territorial breeding
adults, aggregated fish in the wild tolerate being close together
with little expression of aggression. They do spar
over food when working the bottom; but these outbreaks
are brief, with one fish making a quick, short charge at the
other, which generally swims away. But a few moments
later, when moving about or hovering as a close group, the
same two fish may resume the spatial proximity that prevailed
when one attacked the other. Midas cichlids behave
the same way in captivity in a spacious pool. But the fighting
in aquaria conveys an entirely different view of their
aggressiveness.

When kept in small groups, say two to seven fish, in
aquaria of 100 to 400 1 capacity, there is almost continual
fighting. This results in injury and ultimately the death of
weaker individuals. There appear to be three factors contributing
to this. First, the subordinate fish cannot move far
enough away from the attacker, as it would in nature. Second,
being confined to the same place, the fish tend to
become territorial, which often leads to breeding, and thus
they are not in the same behavioral set as schooling wild
fish. Third, in small groups the dominant fish seems to
sustain its attacks on selected individuals.

Those who have experience with many of these larger more aggro species have come to learn that firstly, ALL fish are individuals, with individual temperaments and behavioural characteristics. You cannot simply place all fish from the same genus or species in to the same nice neat little package. I once owned a large adult Aulonocara, a species most would consider relatively peaceful, that hated any/all female fish of his genus, and would kill them on sight. He was a large bull of a fish, and required to be kept with males only. I had another set up that housed several L. caeruleus, that after 2 years of being together the dominant male decided he could no longer tolerate the sub dom male, and one day killed him outright. This was in a 6ft tank, with 4" fish, that most would say are one of the most non aggro fish of the genus.

What George explained above is why sometimes one will see a tank full of large male Amphs, all seemingly getting along, where in that same size tank a single m/f pair would result with one very dead female. Having several females could result in the same fate, at least when one is speaking of adult Amphs. In nature, adult and semi adult groups of Amphs congregate around cover, and in the turbid water of the great lakes this behaviour has more than likely been adapted over time as cover can be scarce in certain parts and depths of the water. Close aggregations in open water are generally only seen in juveniles of this genus. And that doesn't equate to this same behaviour playing out the same way in home aquaria, with tank raised fish that are hundreds/ thousands of generations removed from the wild.

Using your logic one should only keep this genus in large pools to avoid this behavioural trait seen in captivity, or when one of these fish that just won't work in a group surfaces, do what exactly, put them out of their misery with a hammer to the head? My male amphs aggro personality surfaced at 3", when he was attacking and running siblings of both sexes from one end of a 6ft tank to the other. Even in a very large space, with lots of cute little rocks & branches for breaks in line of sight, he seeked out anything breathing and killed it. Not even a pleco could survive. And just for the record, this isn't a hybrid cross, this is a pure A. citrinellus.

The reality is that all of the fish kept in glass boxes are in one form or another a wet pet. If you choose to believe otherwise that's certainly your prerogative, but you're only fooling yourself.


The ironic part ehh, your midevil set up is the very type of tank that this person seems to despise. :)
 
Really, it depends on species. That some species are social, some solitary and some in between in their natural habitat is fish 101... not aquarium 101, fish 101. Some that are normally solitary in the wild, like northern pike, will occasionally congregate under special circumstances and pair up long enough to mate, but certainly don't need that interaction. That some species, or some individuals, adapt to aquarium conditions better than others or adapt to specific aquarium conditions (like other fish in close proximity) better than others is also fish 101.

There are certainly some species most wouldn't think of keeping in a group that you can keep in a group in the right tank and ime green terrors are one of those-- unless they're wild, then forget it ime. I've also seen multiple oscars in a species tank, very large tank. On the other hand imo its something of a mistake not to realize a fish so territorial as to be intolerant of other similar looking or similar sized fish in a tank of limited size could in its own way be stressed by constantly having to fend off invaders when in the wild it would simply chase them off and go back to its minding its own business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RD.
Doesn't make his aquarium any less impressive. Nor does it make me question his opinion any less.
 
...Almost forgot what I was going to say about wet pets. Also varies ime, not just a question of no other fish in the tank. At least ime some are more interested in and interactive with you no matter what other fish are in the tank. I've had some bettas, some discus, certain individual angels or severums, or others, that even when you're messing about in the tank and the other fish are staying off in a corner will hang near you as though curious about what you're up to.

Sometimes when it comes to fish I think you have to allow that someone else's experience is their experience and can be different based on a lot of factors we can't always account for, including different tanks and individual fish.
 
MonsterFishKeepers.com