Where did the term 'P14' originate.. ?

[T1KARMANN]

mmmm i have aqualog and i thought that in that real p14 were maked as small spot henlei p? what ever henlei are

 

[Itaituba2003]

Hi Miles,

in the Aqualog are the P-numbers from Richard Ross P1 - P62.
P14 from Richard is a eclipse leopoldi.

There was an additional P-numbering started from the german magazine Datz (they started the L-numbers) and in this magazine the Itaituba ray got the number P14. That was the start of the confusion. So I decided to give this ray the name Itaituba ray (asked Richard if this would be ok).

In the Aqualog the Itaituba ray is R150 or henlei "Small Spots".

Other names are "starry ray" or for specimen with many spots "Galaxy" and many and large spots "Galaxy Royal".

But most dealer use the P14 so far.

I have to disagree on this. I think P14 is a completaly just name for this kind of animal beceause it has nothing to do with a henlei as discribed in the aqualog book. Their are to many diferencis to discribe this animal as a small spotted henlei.
The name starry ray or estrella is most of the times used for a castexi variant.
Regards
Frank

 

[rayman]

Hi Frank,

I have to disagree on this. I think P14 is a completaly just name for this kind of animal beceause it has nothing to do with a henlei as discribed in the aqualog book. Their are to many diferencis to discribe this animal as a small spotted henlei.

In my opinion this ray is not a henlei too.
I only want to show what different names these rays had in the past.
And the name P14 was first used for a leopoldi variant and not for the Itaituba ray. Now most people think of the Itaituba ray when they read P14, but everyone looking in the Aqualog page 144 where Richards P14 is shown will see a eclipse leopoldi.

The name starry ray or estrella is most of the times used for a castexi variant.

Yes, estrella is a castexi variant.
But estrella was also used for a Itaituba variant from some exporter in Brazil. And the name starry ray was sometimes used in discussion forums for the Itaituba ray. I've never seen that starry ray was used for castexi. Starry ray is the english name for Raja radiata and Raja asterias.

 

[T1KARMANN]

i maybe wrong but in the aqualog book a ray i would class as p14 is marked as henlei

 

[rayman]

i maybe wrong but in the aqualog book a ray i would class as p14 is marked as henlei

There are two.
On page 73 is a small Itaituba during change of coloration.
And on page 78 is a larger one full black.
Why these rays were named as henlei in this book is a miracle to me, because Frank Schäfer did know that they were from Tapajos and not Tocantins.
So from a geografic sight, if they are a variant they could only be a leopoldi variant but never a henlei variant.

But as Frank I think this is a new undescribed species.

 

[Miles]

You'll be able to ask the experts at the Symposium

or listen them to argue..

 

[dodgers86]

or listen them to argue..

There will be alot of opinions and disagreements.

 

[Miles]

So If I were to classify P14..

Would it be

P. Leopoldi sp. "Itaituba"

or

P. Leopoldi sp. "Eclipse"


???

BTW.. What is the P62 P. Leopoldi? A variant?

 

[rayman]

So If I were to classify P14...

you have a problem

Would it be

P. Leopoldi sp. "Itaituba"

For the black rays from Tapajos best is to use the term P. cf. leopoldi this is the name scientist use (if nothing changed recently ...)
Another possibility is P. sp. "Itaituba"

P. Leopoldi sp. "Eclipse"

This is the P14 page 144 Aqualog, a leopoldi variant, so you may use P. leopoldi "Eclipse"

BTW.. What is the P62 P. Leopoldi? A variant?

Yes, leopoldi variant I think from Sao Felix because I've seen some leopoldi from there and they look like that ray.

 

[Miles]

you have a problem


For the black rays from Tapajos best is to use the term P. cf. leopoldi this is the name scientist use (if nothing changed recently ...)
Another possibility is P. sp. "Itaituba"



This is the P14 page 144 Aqualog, a leopoldi variant, so you may use P. leopoldi "Eclipse"



Yes, leopoldi variant I think from Sao Felix because I've seen some leopoldi from there and they look like that ray.

Great info Rayman.. Do you think you can help with the P# system thread? I hope that the open collobration of the google map will help put some distinction from the different morphs and species.. You seem to know alot about distribution and locality, is that from the Aqualog?

Thanks for your help!