I'll have mine lightly grilled on a bed of wild rice with a side of fava beans and a nice chianti..
Why are Asin Arowana's illegal?
- Thread starter Arownana316
- Start date
I don't understand the whole situation with them.
Yes they are endangered. Nobody buys wild ones, they buy captive colorful bred ones with chips.The US is the only country I know of who sees this as not ok.
Secondly there seems to be no attempts to breed them for release back into the wild. So I'm not sure how expanding the market for the captive bred ones will hurt the wild ones. It makes no sense!.
If wild cattle were endangered ( I think some are), should domesticated cattle be illegal to keep?.
Yes they are endangered. Nobody buys wild ones, they buy captive colorful bred ones with chips.The US is the only country I know of who sees this as not ok.
Secondly there seems to be no attempts to breed them for release back into the wild. So I'm not sure how expanding the market for the captive bred ones will hurt the wild ones. It makes no sense!.
If wild cattle were endangered ( I think some are), should domesticated cattle be illegal to keep?.
Why wait?
Just come over the border into Canada ^^
And you can keep one of these Asian Arowana Legally ^^
Just come over the border into Canada ^^
And you can keep one of these Asian Arowana Legally ^^
lol, there's the perfect reason to move to canada, although i think we have a couple of members here who have 'em in the US
There r still lots of them being sold in the US..Illegaly..
Not sure how far this is true.. But..
I've seen lots of them on the internet for sale..The owners live in the US...
But it could be some sort of Scam...
Not sure how far this is true.. But..
I've seen lots of them on the internet for sale..The owners live in the US...
But it could be some sort of Scam...
I just had to put my 2 cents in here. I hope it doesn't start another heated debate.
Asian aros are illegal in the US for one simple reason. They're listed on our endangered species act list. Period. If you get caught with S. Formosus in the US without an endangered species permit, you'll be prosecuted under the ESA, NOT the Lacey Act or anything else. You technically could be charged under lacey as well as the ESA since you illegally aquired the animal, but the fact of the matter is, the first law you're breaking is the ESA.
If they weren't listed on the ESA, or better yet, if you got an ESA permit to import them, and a CITES import permit, you wouldn't be breaking any laws. Technically, the CITES listing doesn't matter for legality in the US either. Even if they weren't listed on CITES, the fact that they're on the US ESA list would still make them illegal.
Take a look at this latest publicized case. http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/cac/news/pr2007/144.html
The first sentance tells the story. "in violation of the Endangered Species Act".
I wish this was a sticky so people would stop asking, and stop getting all sorts of answers.
Asian aros are illegal in the US for one simple reason. They're listed on our endangered species act list. Period. If you get caught with S. Formosus in the US without an endangered species permit, you'll be prosecuted under the ESA, NOT the Lacey Act or anything else. You technically could be charged under lacey as well as the ESA since you illegally aquired the animal, but the fact of the matter is, the first law you're breaking is the ESA.
If they weren't listed on the ESA, or better yet, if you got an ESA permit to import them, and a CITES import permit, you wouldn't be breaking any laws. Technically, the CITES listing doesn't matter for legality in the US either. Even if they weren't listed on CITES, the fact that they're on the US ESA list would still make them illegal.
Take a look at this latest publicized case. http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/cac/news/pr2007/144.html
The first sentance tells the story. "in violation of the Endangered Species Act".
I wish this was a sticky so people would stop asking, and stop getting all sorts of answers.
Eupterus;1383425; said:
Ok I am thankful somebody said this because I didn't want to be the first to say it.
I agree completely. Who wants a boring silver asian aro anyway? I want a RTG or a Chilli red or something selectively bred for its color. I would never want a regular asian arowana.
It just seems silly that we can't buy them if they are captive bred, if anything having people buy more of them will bring more asian aro breeders. Tons more potential aro breeders will see how much we are paying for these things and breed them like crazy (look at the flowerhorn craze).
I understand not keeping some fish that are endangered because they can't be captive bred. Becasue then logically their numbers would dwindle in the wild with every fish kept in aquaria. But thats not the case here.
you'd be suprised how many people want the wild aros. Not just the Nami greens either. As with anything, the rarer the better. Since wild fish are rarer than the CB fish now, there are a lot of people who want wild.
I have to admit this is one part of arro I don't fully understand, as I've only
had them myself for year. I'm 'sheltered' so to speak, I live in Canada where
we can import and keep what we want. I was in a store in the US a couple
weeks ago, where they had some basic silver arrowana, and a green. I had
been told they were illegal to import, the store says different. Yet another
store owner down there I know says they are illegal. Its a pain in the neck.
My supplier in Thailand refers US people to me because he cant ship to the
US. He hopes to ship to me and then buyers from the US come up to get the
fish, but most won't because regardless of how they aquire them, if they get
caught they're screwed.
I do understand to a degree why they don't breed them in captivity and
re-release. Most in captivity now have been for some time, and while the
changes in them geneticially are insignificant, the survival instincts and
natural immunites to pests and diseases, may be quite different. Many of
what are being bred now are way different from the wild types, at least
the parts we can see. It would be like releasing farm raised salmon into
the wild- there's a reason that's illegal as well,the same principles apply.
However, what this should also mean, is that captive bred arro are not
the same as wild caught, therefore maybe they shouldnt be listed as
endangered? It seems as if the 'endangered' label is only making matters
worse. There are many people in the US that would love to buy and breed
arro, but can't. You would think breeding them would help get them off
the endangered list, but the double jeapordy occurs when goverments and
environmentalists wont advocate release of fish that have been bred in
captivity for generations. They are really only hurting the species by not
allowing the import/ownership. If the fish are microchipped and pedigreed,
as many of the more expensive ones these days are, then the chances of
you contributing to the 'endangered' crap is almost non existent- how can
a captive bred fish that is produced in large quantities, and differs from wild caught varieties, be considered as endangered as the wild ones? It makes
no sense.
had them myself for year. I'm 'sheltered' so to speak, I live in Canada where
we can import and keep what we want. I was in a store in the US a couple
weeks ago, where they had some basic silver arrowana, and a green. I had
been told they were illegal to import, the store says different. Yet another
store owner down there I know says they are illegal. Its a pain in the neck.
My supplier in Thailand refers US people to me because he cant ship to the
US. He hopes to ship to me and then buyers from the US come up to get the
fish, but most won't because regardless of how they aquire them, if they get
caught they're screwed.
I do understand to a degree why they don't breed them in captivity and
re-release. Most in captivity now have been for some time, and while the
changes in them geneticially are insignificant, the survival instincts and
natural immunites to pests and diseases, may be quite different. Many of
what are being bred now are way different from the wild types, at least
the parts we can see. It would be like releasing farm raised salmon into
the wild- there's a reason that's illegal as well,the same principles apply.
However, what this should also mean, is that captive bred arro are not
the same as wild caught, therefore maybe they shouldnt be listed as
endangered? It seems as if the 'endangered' label is only making matters
worse. There are many people in the US that would love to buy and breed
arro, but can't. You would think breeding them would help get them off
the endangered list, but the double jeapordy occurs when goverments and
environmentalists wont advocate release of fish that have been bred in
captivity for generations. They are really only hurting the species by not
allowing the import/ownership. If the fish are microchipped and pedigreed,
as many of the more expensive ones these days are, then the chances of
you contributing to the 'endangered' crap is almost non existent- how can
a captive bred fish that is produced in large quantities, and differs from wild caught varieties, be considered as endangered as the wild ones? It makes
no sense.
