why can't i have an aro group

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
I read your sticky. Good read and I agree with what you wrote- great info. An 8x3x2 is a good minimum tank size for one adult aro. Not sure how that translates into it being ok to keep 5 subadults, a few monster cats and some gars in a 180G. In my opinion, this is not a random event. You are way overstocked and when you overstock, things like this are much more likely to happen.

"I know what I am doing" is not the most believable statement in a thread dedicated to how you fish are dropping like flies. Just sayin'. Maybe consider that your bio-load is too high for that size tank.

you may be right about the not a random thing part, but you'll see why in the reading homework i just gave you.

if you feel i am way overstock then cool. i don't see it as so. if you have a goldfish in a 180gal your overstocked to some. it is all opinion and everyone has one. they were 17-18" and 8months old, not subadults yet. they are close to, but imo they aren't subadult aros till they transition from length to girth as a primary growth. that seems to be at the 1.5yr mark for most.

as for bio-load. bio-load is not determined by your gallons/volume alone, but your filtration size in relation to it. if you have a grater filtration system your able to attain a higher bio-load per gallon due to the increase in biological bacteria, as well as said bacteria's access to fresh water(flow rate). then combine that with hydroponics to fully complete the nitrogen cycle you have the ability to achieve a larger stock then the average hob filtered tank. i have on this tank a fx5 filled with ceramics, an odassy 700gph filter filled with sponges and with a built in uv light(though i am not impressed by this filter it still handles the task) and an emperor 400 that is filled with bamboo and pothoes. with this exact bio-load and bi weekly wc of 75% i rarely saw above 20ppm on nitrates and 0 for all the ammo and nitrites. now, explain to me how this tested system that has run this way for, i don't know the last 4 years under similar bio load(and more) is a time bomb in a fragile state as you seem to view it.

me not knowing the limits of my tanks filtration system and monitoring it daily would cause such an accusation. i fail to see how you not knowing what i have for filtration on this tank can justly though me into the "poor fish keeping" category you have put me in. every tank in the world is overstock and some of the greatest displays in the world involve a lot of fish mass into a smaller area. take any public aquarium. they all have to much bio-load per gallon of volume. yet they seem to have no one questioning their displays as being overstocked and their fish are/will be "dropping like flies". the only fish to die were the 5 aros and 4 catfish. considering my total stock to be some were in the in the neighborhood of 6-10 times that amount both in fish and price in my various overstocked tanks. i seem to be doing fairly well, and i am experienced and i happen to know what i am doing. i will admit i am new to some fish(aros and big cats are not one of them) and was new to salt, but got board with that so i discontinued my salt project. i am constantly learning and making some mistakes along the way, this however is not one of them. the only way this is a result of myself is if tonight i find a dryer sheet in my filter that i will be cleaning. otherwise it is the pesticide that my apartment DID spray around my door. i found out the reason for the delay of death from it(if there was not a dryer sheet to be found). that was that my catfish hit the intake of my hob hydroponics system causing it not to flow into the tank. then after a few days i noticed it and fixed it. the following morning the deaths came in. my brother reminded me of this filter fix i did, through all the anger i had the last few days my mind has been alittle cloudy on the events just prior to it. now my pothoes have been affected by this also. they have all turned brown and died over the coarse of this incident so now i am leaning on the pesticide as the cause at a 90% at this point.

my point is don't accuse people of something that your not sure on and you base your judgement on your own opinion, instead of facts. a properly filtered system that get regular maintenance has just about no limit to what you can do with it. 90% of the people out there are just plain under filtered for what they are trying to do and thats were you can take the leap to poor fish keeping.
 
Gars can live in some pretty bad water(not saying this was the case) Gars also can survive with way lower oxygen content in water as well (not the case either)
 
sorry for the sudden loss... sounds like a case of contamination/pollution, but cause still unknown. Hv u considered events/issues relating to your recent water change (since u mention bi-weekly 75% wc)? In my place we tend to avoid water changes of more than 50% unless we are pretty sure of our waters... the solution to pollution is dillution, just in case the water authority screwed up once in a while..... or some nasty stuff get into our storage tank
 
not sure why the gars didnt die. their was plenty of circulation in the tank to create o2 but gars are hardier then the other fish.

my smaller tsn looks to be on the rebound! the niger was dead and the hybrid was to far gone so i finished it off humainly to end the torment on it.


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sbuse- I hear what you are saying. All that I am really saying is that when you try to keep such a massive bio load in a small aquarium, the liklihood of catastrophe is much higher. I think David put's it very well by stating "the solution to pollution is dillution." If a big cat pukes, or an aro drops a particularly nasty deuce, your filtration can can only help so much. There could have been an sudden ammonia spike that took your filters a few hours to get under control...by the time you were able to test your water it may have been too late. As your stock grows, I wouldn't think the filters you mention would be able to handle 5 aros, those big cats and gars. Perhaps with a huge sump, but not with a few canisters and a HOB. This is just my opinion and I hope you don't take it as me attacking you because that's not my intent. I hope you are able to figure out what happened so that you can avoid it in the future.

Glad to hear the TSN is recovering!
 
Sorry for your loss. I know how it feels. I lost some expense nice looking big koi fishes in my pond before because of gill ***e. This is what I think happen. Could it be possible that the power went out for 2-6 hrs when you were sleeping. Lack of air in overstock tank can kill most of your fishes. This is my nightmare about my koi pond during the summer. Thats why I don't want to overstock it.


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When catfishes whiskers curl is a tell tell sign of bad water quality.
x2. Whiskers curl and rotten flesh is symptom of burnt from bad water quality, ammonia spike.
 
wow, that's alot of dead fish. really sorry dude! i bet it was something in the water you put in the tank when you did a water change? maybe they added extra cholormine?
 
sbuse- I hear what you are saying. All that I am really saying is that when you try to keep such a massive bio load in a small aquarium, the liklihood of catastrophe is much higher. I think David put's it very well by stating "the solution to pollution is dillution." If a big cat pukes, or an aro drops a particularly nasty deuce, your filtration can can only help so much. There could have been an sudden ammonia spike that took your filters a few hours to get under control...by the time you were able to test your water it may have been too late. As your stock grows, I wouldn't think the filters you mention would be able to handle 5 aros, those big cats and gars. Perhaps with a huge sump, but not with a few canisters and a HOB. This is just my opinion and I hope you don't take it as me attacking you because that's not my intent. I hope you are able to figure out what happened so that you can avoid it in the future.

Glad to hear the TSN is recovering!

i know what you saying as well but the think is that they had a light feeding of pellets the night before they die i never feed heavy just before a wc for that reason. they may have had a vomit induced ammonia spike, but i can never know. yes the wiskers look like they would in bad water quality because they were in there when all the aro and catfish were dead. thus creating a definate ammo spike. before this happened there wiskers were perfict and with out any flaws. so just based on the whiskers an burns it cant be concluded i had bad water quality except for after the aros died. i have the apartment looking into what they sprayed, but it was for roaches. ill keep updating as i get info.


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