Why the Monsters? Is It Ethical?

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The last two posts are way off base on this issue...... IMO.

Would YOU like to live your life in a jail cell? Is the behavior of inmates not unlike that which we see with our confined so-called "glass-bangers." Do we not see pathological behavior in zoo animals kept in unnatural conditions? The zookeepers of the world have learned that what was acceptable in the past was far from what was needed. As a result, we see the much more natural and expansive exhibits of today, and the longevity, behavior, and breeding success of captive animals is much improved.

.......and the "all aquariums are bad since they're smaller than a lake" argument is only relevant when dealing with species whose natural territory is an entire lake. Many cichlids, for instance, spend the majority of their time in a very small area, and that can be entirely reproduced in captivity. A pair of cons, for example, would never even use more than a few square feet provided there was plenty of food (and in captivity there always is!). BUT, the reasoning I quoted above, though irrelevant for many species is VERY relevant to monster fish. To expect a huge animal -- a fairly intelligent one at that -- to exist in an environment just slightly larger than its own body size is both unrealistic and quite selfish.

The phrase "Japanese Style" aquarium is a touch insulting. Please spare me the fancy label for a run of the mill overstocked aquarium. Nitrate levels may be your concern, but I wonder what measuring stick the fish are using to quanitfy their happiness? Stress levels are through the roof in such setups, and terming them "Japanese Style" is just a euphemism for "too many big fish in too small a tank" (and that phenomenon is certainly not limited to Japan!).

People need to be responsible and selfless enough not to keep fish they cannot properly house. Heck, even the attitude toward what is proper gets skewed by the gang mentality of boards like this. I can't think of a single monster species that can't be almost exactly replicated by a more easily maintained micro-species!
 
Matter of opinion, what you may call cruel other may call adiquate. What you may call adiquate may still be considered cruel by others.
 
Bderick67;3098401; said:
Matter of opinion, what you may call cruel other may call adiquate. What you may call adiquate may still be considered cruel by others.


Some things are based in fact and not simply opinion. The spelling of "adequate" for instance! :naughty:

(sorry.....had to!)


Please offer some facts to support what is clearly your differing opinion.
 
cchhcc;3098457; said:
Some things are based in fact and not simply opinion. The spelling of "adequate" for instance! :naughty:

(sorry.....had to!)


Please offer some facts to support what is clearly your differing opinion.

Do you really want to bring P.E.T.A. into this discussion? Many of them believe no animal should be held captive:screwy:

BTW since it matters to you, you spelt "profiting" wrong:D
 
Yeah i saw a guy on Gumtree the other day was selling an old 4ft tank, that came with about 4 pacu. Imagine the unsuspecting buyers future problems
 
Natural_Born_Killer;3094398; said:
I do think it is sad to see how some of the monster fish are treated. Like the Pacu kept in a tank far too small.

But then, look at the effort that many of the members here go to in order to provide their fish with the best life possible. Massive tanks, excellent filtration, top quality food and more. These fish are now safe from being killed, eating better food on a regular basis and are living in water conditions that are better than their native waters.

So like anything, there are two sides. For those who cannot treat these fish with the proper homes - then yeah its a terrible situation.

But think what makes those situations? Shops that don't give out the proper information, LFS stores that don't refuse to sell to people who don't have sufficient space. Also, personal neglect on individuals side to learn as much about their fish before getting them and the mentality that "its just a fish".

The truth is for those who don't go the extra distance to house their fish, they are probably people who have that view. Unfortunately fish are not ranked by most on the same level as their cats or dogs.

But does that mean that those who would go the distance should be subjected to probable bans on certain species? Is that fair?

Or would it be more fair to ban species like the Pacu? Fish that grow excessively big?

This is just a very two sided topic.

I agree with most of what you are saying but its still high school politics (or freshman is maybe what you guys would call it).
The fact of the matter is most shops would not be in business if they refused everyone that didn't have the proper home for the fish being sold. It's a fact, and it's not solvable in my eyes - unless you ban the sale of the fish itself but even that would lead to the closure of businesses as they thrive on selling these fish.
 
Who thrives on selling monsters, and why does it matter if they thrive anyway if they are being irresponsible?

Bderick.....when the heck did I ever bring PETA into it? I'm not THAT crazy! : )
 
cchhcc;3099048; said:
Who thrives on selling monsters, and why does it matter if they thrive anyway if they are being irresponsible?

Bderick.....when the heck did I ever bring PETA into it? I'm not THAT crazy! : )

Well, when you asked for facts to support my reply:D
 
Folks, this is a good discussion thread but please refrain from going off the base and don't make the mods interfere by closing a good discussion when it goes downhill. Just a reminder.
 
Like Bderick said matter of opinion. In my opinion it's ethical as long as they show no signs of symptons of a disease or stress. I'm just going to use Japanese Style because it's easier to explain that way. There are alot of fish in these smaller tanks but are there any signs of stress, disease. They swim around like any other fish.

I think as long as the tank is long enough and has enough width for X fish then I think it is ethical. I'm not saying a 12 in. Oscar in 2 foot long tank by 14 inch width. The X fish must be able to turn easily with at least a few inches to spare and to be able to swim the length of the tank without hitting the side 2 seconds later.

Example, four 12 inch Oscars in a 125. Most will frown upon keeping three in a 125. Two is the norm for Oscars in a 125 by most standards. But if have excellent filtration and none fight or seemed stress why not have this setup.
 
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