Lol at your common sense statement. Right now there are wildlife officials and govedrnments giving grants to certain qualified people/organizations to do just that collect endangered species. Clean up there natural habitats (not the people doing the collecting of these certain species but the government is doing the cleaning of the lakes/rivers) and when these bodies of water are deemed safe for the fish to return they will be gradually introduced back to their natural habitats. As a matter of FACT some species were already reintroduced back to their natural habitat, if i'm not mistaken with a small level of success. Now does that mean we as hobbiest should do it absolutely not, but can it be done? not only can it be done it has, is and will be done. The cleaning process may take a couple of years to be complete so while those wild fish that are being kept in captivity during the time that these bodies of water are being cleaned will probably not be taking birth control meds so they'll probably have offsprings and they will be introduced to these lakes/rivers as well. Now what is common sense is their immune systems will be challenged so i guess the reintroduction/introduction will be critical I'm assuming they wont just dump the fish in the water and hope for the best, as we shouldnt when we bring new fish home to our tanks. Enough on that! my son's are doing a science project on something SIMILAR to this topic, we are trying to see how much of a role does a diet play in the area of growth and development of f1 fry. We gathered information on the diet of this particular species of fish while in their natural habitat and we are trying to duplicate that to the best of our ability and compare that to the highest quality scientifically engineered diet that we know of ex. NLS and Omega one products and see which set of fish develope the best. The fish will be kept in 2 seperate but identical environments fed at the same time have the same amount of sun light, aquarium light, same temp. and have the same amount of water turn over which will be approx. 100% over a 3.5 day period of time. The experiment will take place over an approx. 4 month period of time, so far we are having fun together. Lol just another way to keep the children involved in the hobby they are the future.mdb_talon;3914176; said:
WILD CAUGHT vs CAPTIVE BREED
- Thread starter GarNiac
- Start date
Tornfins;3914756; said:
Clearly common sense was not enough in this case which is why I directed to the sticky as well.
Your long block of words is irrelevant in terms of comparing the situation you describe to taking a fish out of your aquarium and releasing it to the wild. The differences are many, but the largest being various controls that are put in place by qualified professionals compared to a hobbyist disposing of their fish.
Not to say the experts are perfect, but in general they are the ones qualified to ensure that non-native species and/or disease are not introduced to an ecosystem.
not once did I say you should take fish out of your aquarium and release in the wild, as a matter of a fact I said you shouldn't "Now does that mean we as hobbiest should do it absolutely not" this was taken from my long block of irrelevant block of words. lol happy fish keeping to you i'm not an internet gangster so i will not get involved in an internet war peace.mdb_talon;3915060; said:
From the genetics standpoint, I would say the wild fish would grow larger. It should also be better at dealing with disease. If you think about how we captively breed fish, a good breeder can make an extremely large number of the fry survive. In the wild, however, only a small portion survive. They automatically breed out the weak ones so the wild fish should be the best of the best breed with the other best of the best.
one of the reason I posted this tread is because, its almost impossible for us here in Indo to get those wild caught fishes, specially those that are listed in this forum, cause there are greats amount of local fish being exported overseas and some people taking benefits from it.
This is therefore, most of the fishes being sold here are locally breed without eliminating the chance of getting some cross breeds/hybrid n even a deform body on those fishes. After all who doesnt wanna have a big fish??
I've been keeping bichirs for awhile, and my biggest concern here is of course those that I keep so far would probably not be able to reach its maximum size, for having a bad gens resulted from several generations of breeding.
The other reasons here, is that whether a wild caught fish could still reach its maximum size when it is kept in home tank aquarium because of their 'fresh' gens, this is not to say that we're stunting them, but in common sense, they have more rooms to move in the wild.
Things may be different with captive breed fishes. As they've been through several times of breeding, we dont know for sure how big they could get even though we fulfill all that are necessary for keeping them in our tank, dont you think so?
Treads or Stickies in the forum are what we use as guidance in keeping those fish in the tank. But we do realize that sometimes we see pictures of similar fishes that we keep, with much enormous size compare to those that we keep at home.
Assume the question has been answered that a wild caught fish can grow bigger, then, is there a chance for a captive breed fish to grow and reach up to similar size to those in the wild?which is why I mentioned whether a captive breed fish could still grow bigger when are back to their natural habitat, nor to say we should release them to the wild to prove it.
cheers
This is therefore, most of the fishes being sold here are locally breed without eliminating the chance of getting some cross breeds/hybrid n even a deform body on those fishes. After all who doesnt wanna have a big fish??
I've been keeping bichirs for awhile, and my biggest concern here is of course those that I keep so far would probably not be able to reach its maximum size, for having a bad gens resulted from several generations of breeding.
The other reasons here, is that whether a wild caught fish could still reach its maximum size when it is kept in home tank aquarium because of their 'fresh' gens, this is not to say that we're stunting them, but in common sense, they have more rooms to move in the wild.
Things may be different with captive breed fishes. As they've been through several times of breeding, we dont know for sure how big they could get even though we fulfill all that are necessary for keeping them in our tank, dont you think so?
Treads or Stickies in the forum are what we use as guidance in keeping those fish in the tank. But we do realize that sometimes we see pictures of similar fishes that we keep, with much enormous size compare to those that we keep at home.
Assume the question has been answered that a wild caught fish can grow bigger, then, is there a chance for a captive breed fish to grow and reach up to similar size to those in the wild?which is why I mentioned whether a captive breed fish could still grow bigger when are back to their natural habitat, nor to say we should release them to the wild to prove it.
cheers
Captive breeding, if selecting for size, can result in fish larger than in the wild. I have seen proof of this in Japan amongst koi carp breeders while on buying trips over there. Saying that there are varieties of Koi carp that always stay smaller when fully grown.
The genetics you are selecting for when breeding fish plays a huge role as does water quality and nutrition. The answer to the original question is then yes... and no.
j<><
The genetics you are selecting for when breeding fish plays a huge role as does water quality and nutrition. The answer to the original question is then yes... and no.
j<><
Without selective breeding for size and given identical food and water conditions, the genetics of a fish are the genetics of a fish -- captivity of freedom doesn't change that.
What we often see, though, is smallish fish (like Mbuna) outgrowing their wild cousins quite a bit due to an unending supply of high quality food. Sadly, we see most large fish (like those commonly kept on this site) living lives that are a mere shadow of their wild cousins and dying long before they approach their potential size.
What we often see, though, is smallish fish (like Mbuna) outgrowing their wild cousins quite a bit due to an unending supply of high quality food. Sadly, we see most large fish (like those commonly kept on this site) living lives that are a mere shadow of their wild cousins and dying long before they approach their potential size.
rudywieck52;3916064; said:
Natural selection
Unfortunately any time you remove the natural selection factor from any given species you end up with a lot of weak/stupid/sick individuals in the population.justin guest;3916756; said:
Werd is bond
I agree that a fish kept in Captivity would grow larger under ideal habitat conditions. Due to constant food source and temperature of water staying constant year round.
Someone have a private pond they could do a study and raise some fish in the pond and at the same time indoors.
Along the releasing into the wild, unless you have a license to do so dont do it. Example being Snakeheads, these use to be very common in petstores in the U.S., now they are banned due to people releasing them into the wild where they didnt exist before and the fish is thriving and killing off species of other fish and overpopulating itself.
Someone have a private pond they could do a study and raise some fish in the pond and at the same time indoors.
Along the releasing into the wild, unless you have a license to do so dont do it. Example being Snakeheads, these use to be very common in petstores in the U.S., now they are banned due to people releasing them into the wild where they didnt exist before and the fish is thriving and killing off species of other fish and overpopulating itself.
LD50;3917265; said:Natural selection
Which for some Breeders equals more money for them because they can sell more and sometimes offer them at a lower price given the health of Said fish. So when i take them back to your Aggresive tank they die because they are like what was said above.
