wtf happened???

[Thenick808]

About once a month i buy 100 feeder fish from the local pet store for my oscar and red devil (i still feed him pellets cause ive only ever seen it eat a feeder fish once and it spit it out so im not sure) and ive done this for a long time, ive had my oscar for a few years now and the red devil for a few months.

So anyways my friend let me know about another pet store where the feeder fish were cheaper (not much was paying $15 for 96 and now $15 for 100) and my oscar didnt even eat all of them. But heres were the bad starts, after about 2 or 3 days i noticed what looked like ick on my oscars fins and now its on the red devil to. It looks super horible on the red devil. Thing is it actually looks like ick on the red devil but on the oscars fins its like raised up more like a growth. Both fish seem to be in bad shape and are deteriorating. Another thing is that after i put in these feeder fish the water got all murky to the point where i had to clean my filters about everyday.

What is going on here? Is it just like a super sevre case of ick or is it sound like something else?? How should i go about treating this??

 

[blackghostuk]

They've caught a disease from the feeders - not surprising if you're feeding them 100 un-quarantined fish every month. The ich is probably secondary, due to the stress caused by the main - probably internal - disease. This is why you should never feed freshwater fish to freshwater fish.

 

[Thenick808]

so how should i go about treating them and what should i be feeding them instead of the commets?

 

[Thenick808]

Sorry im a semi newb to keeping bigger fish when it comes to health issues. Ive never really had any problems with any of my other fishes before

 

[Lupin]

Stop giving both of your fish the feeders completely!

Ich is actually the primary issue. Ich is a protozoal parasite that can only be introduced by unquarantined disease carriers. In this case, it is not surprising your feeder fish brought this parasite. You SHOULD have quarantined every feeder for 3-4 weeks under salt and prazi treatment if you wish to feed them. On the other hand, why bother feeding these fish with feeders if both can take well on safer options? This is exactly why I do not encourage using feeders. There MUST be a reason why you use feeders, NOT because you intend to use them as treats or as nutritious addendum (which sadly, they are not).

As ich can attack by opening the slimecoating and epidermis of the fish, it leaves the fish rather prone to bacterial infections. Bacterial infections here is SECONDARY. Septicemia, dropsy, columnaris and finrot are often the common bacterial occurrences after a bout of parasitic infection. It does not matter which parasite attacked the fish. Bacterial infections simply follow suit.

In this case, you should attack the primary cause which is ich. Use salt and increase temperature at 86 degrees Fahrenheit. Make sure your water is well aerated. Use airpumps here.

For salt, it MUST be sodium chloride. Whether the salt has iodine or not, it does not matter contrary to popular beliefs. Kosher salt, "aquarium" salt, pickling salt, rock salt or iodized table salt will work here. Make sure it does NOT however contain yellow prussiate or ferrous cyanide, a very dangerous substance.

Here is how you can dose salt without risk of osmotic shock.
1. Add a teaspoon per gallon (0.1% concentration). Be sure to DISSOLVE salt first before adding.
2. Repeat the same step after 12 hours. This should amount to 0.2% concentration.
3. Repeat same step after another 12 hours totaling 0.3%.

0.3% should be lethal enough to destroy the free-swimming protozoans called trophonts. The elevated temperature should enable the protozoans to reproduce quickly thus the trophonts become exposed to the presence of salt killing them in the process. Salt also will help prevent bad bacteria from latching on your fish's infections so that is a bonus.

Keep the salt treatment for another 7 days after the last ich was spotted to ensure that you destroy ALL of the protozoans. When doing water changes, be sure you redose salt per the amount of water replaced. I suggest that you do your water changes daily and redose the salt as well.

In the meantime, AVOID feeders completely. Feed your fish properly formulated commercial foods and frozen foods such as bloodworms and brine shrimps.

 

[TwistedPenguin]

Well I certainly can't think of a single thing to add to what Lupin said. That pretty much says it all as far as what responsible fishkeepers here would tell you.

 

[bob965]

Are you dumping all 100 in the tank with your fish at once? It sounds like it, since you said your water turns murky after you add them. You've massively increased your bioload all at once with a bunch of feeders, probably causing an ammonia/nitrite spike. Then you further compound the problem by cleaning your filters "everyday". Now you've got stressed fish sitting in poisonous water, exposed to all kinds of pathogens from the feeders. Consider yourself lucky if the worst that happens is a case of ich. Good luck.

 

[BODYDUB]

FYI, feeders are usually kept in poor water conditions. Vendors tend not to care for them because they are disposable and bought in bulk as oppose to a show fish...........

 

[Thenick808]

ok thanks for all the info! hopefully i can save my fish

 

[SeaweedPimp]

Stop giving both of your fish the feeders completely!

Ich is actually the primary issue. Ich is a protozoal parasite that can only be introduced by unquarantined disease carriers. In this case, it is not surprising your feeder fish brought this parasite. You SHOULD have quarantined every feeder for 3-4 weeks under salt and prazi treatment if you wish to feed them. On the other hand, why bother feeding these fish with feeders if both can take well on safer options? This is exactly why I do not encourage using feeders. There MUST be a reason why you use feeders, NOT because you intend to use them as treats or as nutritious addendum (which sadly, they are not).

As ich can attack by opening the slimecoating and epidermis of the fish, it leaves the fish rather prone to bacterial infections. Bacterial infections here is SECONDARY. Septicemia, dropsy, columnaris and finrot are often the common bacterial occurrences after a bout of parasitic infection. It does not matter which parasite attacked the fish. Bacterial infections simply follow suit.

In this case, you should attack the primary cause which is ich. Use salt and increase temperature at 86 degrees Fahrenheit. Make sure your water is well aerated. Use airpumps here.

For salt, it MUST be sodium chloride. Whether the salt has iodine or not, it does not matter contrary to popular beliefs. Kosher salt, "aquarium" salt, pickling salt, rock salt or iodized table salt will work here. Make sure it does NOT however contain yellow prussiate or ferrous cyanide, a very dangerous substance.

Here is how you can dose salt without risk of osmotic shock.
1. Add a teaspoon per gallon (0.1% concentration). Be sure to DISSOLVE salt first before adding.
2. Repeat the same step after 12 hours. This should amount to 0.2% concentration.
3. Repeat same step after another 12 hours totaling 0.3%.

0.3% should be lethal enough to destroy the free-swimming protozoans called trophonts. The elevated temperature should enable the protozoans to reproduce quickly thus the trophonts become exposed to the presence of salt killing them in the process. Salt also will help prevent bad bacteria from latching on your fish's infections so that is a bonus.

Keep the salt treatment for another 7 days after the last ich was spotted to ensure that you destroy ALL of the protozoans. When doing water changes, be sure you redose salt per the amount of water replaced. I suggest that you do your water changes daily and redose the salt as well.

In the meantime, AVOID feeders completely. Feed your fish properly formulated commercial foods and frozen foods such as bloodworms and brine shrimps.

First of all, THANK YOU sir, for all the helpful links on this website. Your info is amazingly helpful.

Ok heres my Q - Bought a gsp from wallmart. I know i know..

Well it had ich. I was just wondering since now that hes home with me, hes at about 1.005 salinity. Hes young so i hear thats what its supposed to be.Any way, would just putting him in his proper salinity/1 week of about 80-85 degrees + regular water changes rid him of this?
I actually think that it did get rid of it. Its been about 7 days now and it seems to be gone. BUT i checked on him this morning and he has a pretty decent sized ulcer or something on his back dorsal fin. Up aginst his real skin. What the hell is this? Bacterial infection brought on by who knows how long he had ich?

I love this puffer and could not put him under just because of a sore on his tail. Please tell me its got hope .

Anyone know what this could be? Sorry to hijack the thread!