YFS brand food compared to NLS & Northfin food

[cichliduser]

Have you tested your water?

Yes

If I did not test my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.

Do you do water changes?

Yes

If I do not change my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.

Hello. I have read quite a bit through the forum and the overwhelming majority of people seem to use NLS and Northfin. I personally have kept Mbuna, Psuedotropheus Saulosi or now known as Chindongo Saulosi, and have fed them only "Your Fish Stuff" brand food since I got them over a year ago. I'm running low on food and was looking to purchase some so I was reading through the forum and after comparing the ingredients in NLS and Northfin, they seem to be inferior to YFS. I am curious what peoples opinions are on this brands food products as they have (what seems to be) by far the greatest ingredient list out of any food brand I've viewed yet.

I personally feed YFS Veggivore flakes & Green Supreme Veggie Pellets (but now a days only the flakes as that seems to be what my Mbuna prefer).

Ingredients:

• Green Peas, Salmon Fish Meal, Soy-Meal Flours, Kelp Seaweed, Krill Meal, Spirulina, Celery, Carrots, Squash, Spinach and Broccoli. Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Garlic Powder
• Vitamin Supplements: A, D-3, B1, B-12, Choline HCL, Biotin, Double Stabilized Vitamin “C”, Methionine, No Preservatives, No Coloring
• Guaranteed Analysis
  • 38% Protein 4% Fat 7% Fiber 8% Moisture

Looking forward to hearing peoples experience with this brand and if not, their thoughts on the ingredients compared to the other big brands. Thanks!


]https://www.yourfishstuff.com/collections/fish-food/products/veggivore-flakes

Green Supreme Veggie Pellets

Looking for a nutritious veggie pellet for Malawi Mbuna, Tanganyikan Tropheus species or veggie loving saltwater fish? Then look no further this is the perfect choice. Please consider our Green Supreme veggie pellets. We searched out four of the best 'green' foods we could find and put them all...

www.yourfishstuff.com

 

[jjohnwm]

I will look forward to hearing the opinions of RD. and some of our other experienced keepers who are very into the details of fish nutrition. Reading their opinions in the past, combined with simple logic and common sense, indicates that foods should contain as few ingredients of terrestrial/non-aquatic origin as possible. Two of the first three ingredients on that list fall into that non-desirable category, with several more listed further down, so I personally don't think it is particularly desirable as a staple food.

The protein content is not especially high, either. I am always on the lookout for lower-protein vegetarian-oriented foods for my Goodeid livebearers; I have read many opinions which state that foods that are high in protein cause problems in these fish, specifically encouraging the typically-large fry to attain even larger sizes as embryos in the female's body, resulting in difficult deliveries and even the death of the female. It's a balancing act, because low protein fish foods tend to have recipes that are not very encouraging...like this one. I now feed these fish a fair bit of mostly goldfish flakes and small pellets, combined with large quantities of hair algae which I purposely encourage in other tanks. Since going in this direction I am seeing an almost complete lack of mysterious deaths among my adult females; before paying attention to this, I would lose several adult females each year to a condition which appeared similar to a prolapsed anus. This always occurred to heavily pregnant females, leading me to believe that perhaps the higher protein content of the "higher-quality" foods was indeed the culprit.

So this food might be of some use in that type of limited scenario. But the majority of aquarists are looking for higher protein levels for the majority of their fish, and it certainly is not difficult to find any number of foods with better numbers than this brand.

 

[cichliduser]

I will look forward to hearing the opinions of RD. and some of our other experienced keepers who are very into the details of fish nutrition. Reading their opinions in the past, combined with simple logic and common sense, indicates that foods should contain as few ingredients of terrestrial/non-aquatic origin as possible. Two of the first three ingredients on that list fall into that non-desirable category, with several more listed further down, so I personally don't think it is particularly desirable as a staple food.

The protein content is not especially high, either. I am always on the lookout for lower-protein vegetarian-oriented foods for my Goodeid livebearers; I have read many opinions which state that foods that are high in protein cause problems in these fish, specifically encouraging the typically-large fry to attain even larger sizes as embryos in the female's body, resulting in difficult deliveries and even the death of the female. It's a balancing act, because low protein fish foods tend to have recipes that are not very encouraging...like this one. I now feed these fish a fair bit of mostly goldfish flakes and small pellets, combined with large quantities of hair algae which I purposely encourage in other tanks. Since going in this direction I am seeing an almost complete lack of mysterious deaths among my adult females; before paying attention to this, I would lose several adult females each year to a condition which appeared similar to a prolapsed anus. This always occurred to heavily pregnant females, leading me to believe that perhaps the higher protein content of the "higher-quality" foods was indeed the culprit.

So this food might be of some use in that type of limited scenario. But the majority of aquarists are looking for higher protein levels for the majority of their fish, and it certainly is not difficult to find any number of foods with better numbers than this brand.

Ahh I have yet to think about viewing the ingredients in this light (the perspective of non aquatic origin ingredients). The low quantity of ingredients and the majority of them being veggies attracted me to this brand. The logic I had behind this stems from the fact that a lot of Mbuna keepers feed their Mbuna blanched veggies (Like Tazawa tanks on youtube).

I am also very much so looking forward to hearing RD. opinion on this as he is such a wealth of knowledge and expertise on this forum!

 

[RD.]

I think that the following past discussion should pretty much sum up how I feel regarding feeding vegetables, to fish.

Aquatic v terrestrial | MonsterFishKeepers.com

I have personally never fed terrestrial based vegetable matter to any species of herbivore that I have owned, and I've raised plenty over the years, including many species from the Rift Lakes.

I have kept numerous species of African cichlids, pretty much all of the species that are considered by the masses to be bloat prone magnets, such as various Tropheus sp., Tanganicodus irsacae, Tropheops Macrophthalmus, P. demasoni, Labeotropheus fuelleborni, Labeotropheus trewavasae, several species of Melanochromis & Metriaclima as well as numerous other species of mbuna classified as herbivores, and over a span of 15+ years in keeping mbuna never once encountered bloat in any of my tanks. All raised on pellets., no terrestrial veggies ever. Lots of long lived healthy colorful fish.

NLS & NF Inferior? I think not. See link above for more info.

 

[RD.]

BTW - that is not to say that one can't also get good results from other brands, such as YFS. Just not something that I would personally feed.

 

[cichliduser]

I think that the following past discussion should pretty much sum up how I feel regarding feeding vegetables, to fish.

Aquatic v terrestrial | MonsterFishKeepers.com

I have personally never fed terrestrial based vegetable matter to any species of herbivore that I have owned, and I've raised plenty over the years, including many species from the Rift Lakes.

I have kept numerous species of African cichlids, pretty much all of the species that are considered by the masses to be bloat prone magnets, such as various Tropheus sp., Tanganicodus irsacae, Tropheops Macrophthalmus, P. demasoni, Labeotropheus fuelleborni, Labeotropheus trewavasae, several species of Melanochromis & Metriaclima as well as numerous other species of mbuna classified as herbivores, and over a span of 15+ years in keeping mbuna never once encountered bloat in any of my tanks. All raised on pellets., no terrestrial veggies ever. Lots of long lived healthy colorful fish.

NLS & NF Inferior? I think not. See link above for more info.

Well I believe experience trumps all and you’ve quite obviously had a lot of it.

Which variation of NLS/ NF do you feed your Mbuna? I couldn’t seem to find that on the forum and I’d like to get a bag ordered! Thanks!

 

[RD.]

I no longer keep mbuna, but when I did I fed the 1mm cichlid formula for the most part. Today, I would feed a mix of cichlid and algaemax formulas. 50/50. Just keep in mind that not all mbuna are herbivorous, some are insectavores, some omnivores, and all will relish protein supplements in the wild, such as nymphs, larvae, etc.

 

[neutrino]

Just me, but it breaks my rule for soy-- I don't use foods having it as an ingredient, similar for corn, and peas are too high on the ingredients list for me. Some of these ingredients may be okay at low enough levels, or tolerance levels may vary for different types of fish, but considering the alternatives without these ingredients, there's too much of the following kind of thing in the science literature for me to mess with foods that have them. Just my opinion.

(PDF) The Potential Impacts of Soy Protein on Fish Gut Health (researchgate.net)

Multiomics analysis of soybean meal induced marine fish enteritis in juvenile pearl gentian grouper, Epinephelus fuscoguttatus ♀ × Epinephelus lanceolatus ♂ - PMC (nih.gov)

Alternative protein sources must be economically viable, environmentally friendly, healthy for fish, and at least maintain the current growth rate of aquaculture. At present, soybean products are the first choice to replace FM protein, among which soybean meal (SBM) is the most commonly used3. However, common SBMs can only be added to feed at a low level, otherwise, it may affect the intestinal microflora structure and cause enteritis in the hindgut of fish, such as Salmo salar4, Oncorhynchus mykiss5, Cyprinus carpio6, and Danio rerio7, etc.

...Soybean saponins combined with pea protein, on the other hand, can cause significant changes in histological and transcriptional levels16. Other studies have shown that the enteritis saponins induced enteritis is dose-dependent, where a high content of saponins (2-4 g/kg) can cause enteritis of Atlantic salmon that has nothing to do with the type of protein source in the basal diet

High level of dietary pea protein concentrate induces enteropathy in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar L.) - ScienceDirect

Fish meal is traditionally and nutritionally the most important protein source for the culture of carnivorous fishes. Alternative protein sources, such as soybeans, are being added to aquaculture feeds, but have limited inclusion because of negative effects at high inclusion levels. One significant health problem associated with full-fat or solvent extracted soybean meal (SBM) is the dose dependent enteropathy affecting the distal intestine (DI) in salmonids fed diets containing SBM. The condition has been described by Baeverfjord and Krogdahl (1996) as a non-infectious subacute enteritis.

Corn gluten, produced from maize (Zea mays L.), can replace a significant proportion of the fish meal in rainbow trout diets, although some studies have reported lower feed intake and growth using corn gluten as a fishmeal substitute

 

[JackEmerson]

YFS cichlid pellets (1mm) is one of the brands I rotate in for my African cichlid.

Ingredients wise, they are not as good as NF and NLS (in my opinion), for the same reasons already given.

YFS is one of the first brands I had success with when I started in this hobby 1.5 years ago (I am still a newbie I guess). So I have kept them in the rotation.

I occasionally purchase plants and other supplies from YFS, so it is pretty cheap to throw in some pellets to round out the order.

The owner of YFS (bill) is a great guy who I have communicated with several times. He is very helpful at answering questions about their products

 

[JackEmerson]

One concern I have with YFS is that both their veggie and cichlid pellets combine green peas and soy. The combination of these two, according to some research, may be an unhealthy mix.

Here is an article discussing the potential negative effects of combining these two terrestrial ingredients.

Difficulties In Digesting Pea/ Soybean Mix

NORWAY - Researchers from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU) have discovered that fish feed, with combined pea/ soybean proteins in it, causes digestive complaints in fish.

thefishsite.com

here is the takeaway point :”But feed with pea protein must not contain soybeans or other vegetable ingredients that are high in saponins.”

it is worth pointing out that numerous other brands combine soy and green pea In their formula. For example, Xtreme cichlid pee wee (which is highly recommended by some folks) also combines these two ingredients.