You should try feeding Wardleys pond food

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Great info. I agree that cichla dont eat corn and soybeans but the pond food is 33% protein, I bet they have the proteases to break it down and absorb the amino acids same as any other protein source. As far as carbs, whatever isnt broken down and absorbed is basically dietary fiber, they label it "endogenous anti-nutritional factors within plant feedstuffs". 4.5% max fiber in this food.

This is what Im interested in "Soybeans contain saponins which at higher levels have proven to cause damage a fishes intestinal cells"
 
If its a hartz product I wouldn't use it.
Hartz products cause all kinds of nasty issues with cats and dogs, I would imagine theres a chance fish stuff by them.

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I bet they have the proteases to break it down and absorb the amino acids same as any other protein source
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How much would you like to bet? I suggest that you do some research into what piscivores such as cichla can break down and assimilate with regards to carbohydrates, then get back to me. And the protein listed is simply a crude protein analysis, a figure taken from a test tube by a guy wearing a white lab coat.

As far as carbs, whatever isnt broken down and absorbed is basically dietary fiber
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Really? So if I eat 4 loaves of white bread each day what isn't broken down simply becomes dietary fiber? That's the only result of a human consuming large amounts of low cost carbs? Think about it.

Seriously, reread my previous comment, and then do some real research on this subject before you attempt at getting into a debate on this subject.


This food is crap for a cichla.
 
RD. said:
How much would you like to bet? I suggest that you do some research into what piscivores such as cichla can break down and assimilate with regards to carbohydrates, then get back to me. And the protein listed is simply a crude protein analysis, a figure taken from a test tube by a guy wearing a white lab coat.



Really? So if I eat 4 loaves of white bread each day what isn't broken down simply becomes dietary fiber? That's the only result of a human consuming large amounts of low cost carbs? Think about it.

Seriously, reread my previous comment, and then do some real research on this subject before you attempt at getting into a debate on this subject.


This food is crap for a cichla.
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Sorry but you clearly arent even in this debate due to your lack of understanding.
 
The food is crap.

He's explained to you very clearly why. He even sited and copied peer reviewed research for you. It's up to you whether to accept these truths or to continue denying them.
 
RD you have good intentions but you never had Biology 101. Proteins, fats and carbs are exactly that regardless of the sources. This food is cheap because it uses cheaper sources. These macronutrients are broken down into their building blocks (proteins - amino acids, fats - fatty acids, carbs - glucose), absorbed and then rebuilt into whatever proteins, fat or carb is needed. This metabolism depends on the hydrolytic enzymes to break down the macronutrients in the digestive tract. Each macronutrient is broken down by different types of enzymes (amylase breaks down carbs, not proteins). Like you said cichla don't consume large amounts of carbs so naturally they don't produces a lot of enzymes to break it down. The carbs not broken down are passed through unchanged, which is dietary fiber. Crude protein is protein. Its ingested and broken down by proteases then absorbed and rebuilt. Cichla obviously produce plenty of these proteases.
 
Gee, thanks for the science lesson, you smart. :grinno:




And yes, I'm already aware of the fact that amylase breaks down carbs, not proteins, I stated just that in my previous post.

The main issue with that pond feed is the massive amount of terrestrial based carbs/starch in that diet. Predatory species are not capable of assimilating large amounts of carbohydrates efficiently due to the fact that unlike fish such as Koi, most predatory species do not produce the enzymes required (amylase) in any significant quantity (if at all) to break those carbs down.
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You aren't educating my friend, you are simply coming off like a child.

I have no problem what people feed their fish, including those that want to feed a low grade pond food to a piscivore, but please don't attempt to somehow prove that this is a quality diet for a cichla, because it isn't. My only reason for even posting in this discussion is so that those that may read this discussion down the road will understand why cheap pond food typically isn't a healthy choice for feeding carnivores.


Happy fishkeeping.
 
I agree with raideranch, proteins are proteins. Cichla can live on a high carb diet, but it obviously isn't ideal. Just like a dog can live a normal life on cheap dog food.

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I dont think this is a quality diet for cichla. I started this thread bc I figured some others would like to try it out. For the price I think its a decent food and I dont believe its harmful in anyway to add this to part of your fishes well rounded diet. My fish actually look better after I've fed them this stuff. Try in out, you might be surprised.
 
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