Your Honest Opinion Wanted

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A

Alton

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jun 23, 2011
180
1
0
Warren, Pa
I read the article on ACA about the Ruby Red and German Red species. I now have a trio of German reds and 2 F1 Ruby Red females. Would you think the german Red Male breeding with the Ruby Red Females as a hybrid?

After reading the article I feel these are the same species with the difference of one being line breed and one natural from the lake Malawi. But I am looking for opinions and thoughts about this. Please feel free to post your opinion.
 
So basically the question is: Is a cross between a "fancy" line-bred version of A. stuartgranti and one a wild-type one a hybrid.

The technical answer is that if both are the same described species, then they would not be hybrids.

This, of course, depends on the fish in question being verifiably "pure". Which is a difficult thing to prove:

- What is the source of the F1 Ruby Reds (or A. stuartgrant "Chipoka")? Can they show you the wild fish and/or from whom they were imported?
- Can you prove that the line of German Reds only has A. stuartgranti "Chipoka" in it?

In the end, the fish in question are "fancy" peacocks.

The technical determination of whether they are hybrids or not is about as meaningless - to me at least - as whether fancy discus or fancy guppies or fancy whatever are technically hybrids or not. They're intentionally bred to look aesthetically pleasing...not to be "authentic" to what's found in the wild.

And there's, of course, nothing wrong with pretty, healthy fish!

Matt
 
Thanks Matt, The best answers I can give in regards to the fish are: The F1's are from Atlantis and they will stake their reputation they are pure. As told to me by them. The German Reds are from a friend and he is as anal as I am about pure breeds. SO I am sure he knows what I know about mine. But knowing all of this no one truely knows what fish they get are pure or not. Unless you personally pull them out of the lake yourself I see no true way of knowing if anything is pure. Not to mention Hybrids occur in the lake naturally and who woud know if that ever happened. A long time breeder told me if you have 3 batches and none are abnormal, chances are you have a pure line.

I realized this was a huge debatable issue. I am trying to keep from getting technical and just looking for opinions.
 
I do not believe that Atlantis would knowingly sell you an "F1 Ruby Red Peacock"...that's kind of like selling someone an F1 Electric Blue Jack Dempsey. They're a man-made (line bred) variety of fish...

As I posted before, unless you're dealing with wild-type fish, the only thing that really matters is that they look like what they're supposed to look like (Ruby Reds / German Reds)...

Matt
 
It was ordered and confirmed as a F1 Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Ruby Red". I ordered them in 2009 and was 1 male and 2 females. I have the packing slip and that is what it says. I talked to them less then 6 months ago about the fish I ordered. He said if anyone had a question about them to call them with the info and they woud verify the fish I ordered.
 
I vote for not technically hybrid... pending they ARE verified... A line bred doesnt mean it was mixed with anything, It's referring to the picks of the litter (or spawn) being chosen for their stand out trait, until that trait becomes a dominant feature in his offspring... mixing that with a wild caught although not as "pure" still not hybridized.... Again PENDING VERIFICATION

just my .02 (and for the record... I had a rant in a thread about what I THINK of hybrids) ha ha ha
 
Hmmm....that doesn't really make sense.

You can't really tell from the females...but does the male F1 "Ruby" Red look like the line bred (i.e. really red) fish in the hobby or a less colorful fish?

Matt

Alton said:
It was ordered and confirmed as a F1 Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Ruby Red". I ordered them in 2009 and was 1 male and 2 females. I have the packing slip and that is what it says. I talked to them less then 6 months ago about the fish I ordered. He said if anyone had a question about them to call them with the info and they woud verify the fish I ordered.
Click to expand...
 
I have this posted in 3 sites, it has been interesting to say the least. So far the majority of the people think just like what Dave said above. Maybe 4 people say HYBRID, but they are also calling every fish in the trade a hybrid. My opinion to all this is, Hybridization does happen in the wild. Linebreeding is a part of all species, including humans. Females are programmed to select the best and most dominate male to breed with. Although these happen in Nature both are tampering with Mother Nature. Both have bad points the the health of the offspring. Knowing this and the fact people want and buy hybrids. I stand with this:

If you do hybrids, keep them to your self and get rid of all females. Linebreeds, if done right are awesome but life span is shorter and way more vulernable to diseases. If your honest and truthful about the fish then I see nothing wrong as long as the buyer knows what they are buying. The problem with females is they can be passed as pure breed and it is near impossible to tell. That is where I have the issue, people being tricked. As long as there is OB's forsale people will always be trying to make a new color and fish.
 
Dogofwar, the patterns in the fins are near identical. The female German reds are darker brown, almost a blackish color. The F1 Ruby Reds are different colors and always have been. One is brown like a normal female and the other has a noticeable red tint all over its body. But the F1's are almost 3 years old and the Germans are less then a year old. So tough to compare them for that reason
 
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