Your thoughts on breeding BATMAN rays?

[Gr8KarmaSF]

David - are you saying that rays cut up for disc re-growth could survive a procedure like this? Most of us know that a ray can grow its disc back from a small bite, but this severe? You also talk about UNeven disc re-growth, can you share some pictures of this please? I would think, and its just purely an opinion, a P bite would heal up much faster than tri-angular chunks being cut out of a disc. Again I would love to see pics of an UNeven disc regrowth...

 

[DavidW]

I am saying that methods used with finned fish have been tried with bitten up rays by wholesalers in S.Am, such as those in the photo . Some survive, others don't. Larger injuries will definitely heal with a disturbed pattern. I am not saying it was a good idea. Ascribing the motivation of 'wanting to create a batman ray' to those cut rays is not necessarily correct.


Rays are weird sometimes. They can survive massive injuries, or fall victim to tiny ones

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

I am saying that methods used with finned fish have been tried with bitten up rays by wholesalers in S.Am, such as those in the photo . Some survive, others don't. Larger injuries will definitely heal with a disturbed pattern. I am not saying it was a good idea. Ascribing the motivation of 'wanting to create a batman ray' to those cut rays is not necessarily correct.


Rays are weird sometimes. They can survive massive injuries, or fall victim to tiny ones

I hear what you in are saying in that their are other motivations for cutting up a ray but I am more interested in the post healing patterns on a ray that might survive this procedure. Any pictures? If not please describe this "disturbed pattern." How does it look different? Discolored completely? Texture is off, like a scab/scar? No pattern on the healed disc? etc.

 

[DavidW]

Sorry GR8
I had literally hundreds if not thousands of photos that were all lost when a hard drive crapped out on me last year.
Usually when a ray heals from a big wound you will be able to see a slight difference in the pattern at the wound site, either/and/or the base color may be a little different and the pattern won;t quite match. This is more easily noticed on rays with swirling patterns, like Tigers.
You might think that 1 P won;t do much damage, this maybe true, but when did 1 P hang out by itself in the Amazon? they shoal by the thousands when temperatures are up. There are also plenty of other predators that consider a ray a tasty treat that would take big chunks from a ray.
hth?

 

[abortedsoul]

good point...
someone posted some p14's a while back that 1 was half batman It looked similar to that, but no i cannot say for sure.

I had a similar experience at the ”Stingray City” location off of Grand Cayman; there was a ray there with a malformed disc. I fed it, held it and inspected it up close. The defect present was almost certainly not the result of an injury. The tissue looked unharmed, with none of the tell-tale signs of scar tissue or regeneration. It was just too developmental, too embrionic-looking to chalk up to a simple injury.

 

[abortedsoul]

Something else- what indication does anyone have that this is genetic? Evidence only, circumstantial is fine but imaginary is not.

 

[DavidW]

It probably is not genetic but developmental, but this is just theoretical.

 

[abortedsoul]

It probably is not genetic but developmental, but this is just theoretical.

From other examples of embryonic developmental disorders, I would have to say that this is like cheiloschisis, only it is a cleft disc. I have never seen a malformation like this that has a genetic component. It could, but it would certainly be out of the ordinary.

 

[ichtus6877]

yes! ive seen them bred before

 

[lincolngoh]

I don't think it's genetic. I've got batman from hybrids which have a more than adequate gene pool to draw form. It may be the presence of certain chemicals. Remember. Rays are primitive animals and have primitive systems, and hence more sensitive to them, just as they are more sensitive to many kinds of medication.

... based on a study

http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t000502c.html

Environmental Endocrine Disruptors

"An emerging issue of concern is the potential of some environmental agents to be hormonally active in the body and disrupt natural endocrine processes. It is known that at high concentrations in nature some of these agents, particularly chlorinated pollutants, can cause reproductive and developmental disorders in wildlife. What remains to be learned is whether or not the low-level exposures that humans have can translate into adverse health problems. "

My Guess - The presence of unnaturally high levels of chlorine/fluoride is explained by our water. Growth hormones are pumped into farmed fish/prawns that accelerate these deformities when fed to the ray.

Having said that, I'm the fence on this one because batmans are weaker although they are are rally charming later in life when they can move their 'flippers' interdependently.