Zebra Mussels for filtration?

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Moontanman;2856525; said:
First of all i would like to state categorically that i am not suggesting anyone keep zebra mussels but if you live in an area where they are already thick as fleas on a stray dog how could keeping them cause a problem? How would escaping back to where they are already established cause a problem?

I am well aware of the problems of preventing escape into the wild, I have an aquaculture license and and I know the importance of not spreading exotics into the wild. I question the possibility of zebra mussels actually causing a problem in a small closed aquarium, i see no way for them to obtain food so the old "they will stop up your filter tubes" is BS in my opinion.

I keep clams and mussels in my aquariums and feeding them is a problem, there simply is not enough food in an aquarium to keep mussels alive much less support a reproducing population. Taking zebra mussels out of thier already established range would indeed be a bad move. No one should do it.

I read you loud and clear Moon. I wish you would believe others about the ease of zebra mussels to spread. My customers that use natural water for cooling (primary metals companies) spend millions each year removing them from 36" pipes (and bigger) that carry process water. Keep in mind this water is nasty in the fact that it cools hot/molten metals. I would suspect the water is nutritionally deficient for most creatures but the zebra mussels thrive. Zebra mussels have been clogging huge pipes and small pipes around here for a long time. They will escape and thrive in many places we're not used to native mussels even making it a day.

The big problem soon to face waste water treatment plants are obvious... mussels that thrive in industrial process water would ruin city sewer pipes in no time and I can't even imagine what they would do to septic system.

http://www.clr.pdx.edu/projects/volunteer/images/zm_pipe.jpg
 
teleost;2860101; said:
I read you loud and clear Moon. I wish you would believe others about the ease of zebra mussels to spread. My customers that use natural water for cooling (primary metals companies) spend millions each year removing them from 36" pipes (and bigger) that carry process water. Keep in mind this water is nasty in the fact that it cools hot/molten metals. I would suspect the water in nutritionally deficient for most creatures but the zebra mussels thrive. Zebra mussels have been clogging huge pipes and small pipes around here for a long time. They will escape and thrive in many places we're not used to native mussels even making it a day.

The big problem soon to face waste water treatment plants are obvious... mussels that thrive in industrial process water would ruin city sewer pipes in no time and I can't even imagine what they would do to septic system.

I do believe they are easy to spread, I have no doubt that releasing them into waters anywhere is a bad idea. I see no reason i cannot think about them or contemplate how they might live in an aquarium. I do not support keeping them in any way. I do doubt very seriously they could cause a problem in small aquarium long term. when first set up an aquarium can support mussels and clams but as the aquarium ages food sources become few and far between and the population of filter feeders become severely limited. I've seen it in salt water with sponges, clams, oysters and various tube worms covering everything at first but over the long term the populations die back to very limited numbers. I do not see how the open environment of pipes being furnished with fresh new water consistently can compare with a closed system. Be that as it may I do not suggest anyone keep zebra mussels, i however do not think they will grow on my carpet, take over my bed room and impregnate my dog. Living in a closed septic tank would be a neat trick, no oxygen would limit even zebra mussels. considering complex life forms, even those much tougher than zebra mussels, do not generally live in septic tanks but again as I said I see no reason to test out that theory. But I again to ask how would keeping them in an area where they are already occupying every possible habitat harm anything? Assuming you don't flush them into open sewers or dump them at all much less anywhere they are already not endemic? I've was offered rocks covered with zebra mussels many times when I was trading fishes and I turned them down due to the possibility they might escape accidentally but it does not keep me from thinking about such animals in an aquarium. Where i live i often find small mussels attached to plants and wood, I've thought of trying to keep them to see how they do in an aquarium but they seem to be food for most fishes I keep.
 
Moontanman;2860216; said:
I do believe they are easy to spread, I have no doubt that releasing them into waters anywhere is a bad idea. I see no reason i cannot think about them or contemplate how they might live in an aquarium. I do not support keeping them in any way. I do doubt very seriously they could cause a problem in small aquarium long term. when first set up an aquarium can support mussels and clams but as the aquarium ages food sources become few and far between and the population of filter feeders become severely limited. I've seen it in salt water with sponges, clams, oysters and various tube worms covering everything at first but over the long term the populations die back to very limited numbers. I do not see how the open environment of pipes being furnished with fresh new water consistently can compare with a closed system. Be that as it may I do not suggest anyone keep zebra mussels, i however do not think they will grow on my carpet, take over my bed room and impregnate my dog. Living in a closed septic tank would be a neat trick, no oxygen would limit even zebra mussels. considering complex life forms, even those much tougher than zebra mussels, do not generally live in septic tanks but again as I said I see no reason to test out that theory. But I again to ask how would keeping them in an area where they are already occupying every possible habitat harm anything? Assuming you don't flush them into open sewers or dump them at all much less anywhere they are already not endemic? I've was offered rocks covered with zebra mussels many times when I was trading fishes and I turned them down due to the possibility they might escape accidentally but it does not keep me from thinking about such animals in an aquarium. Where i live i often find small mussels attached to plants and wood, I've thought of trying to keep them to see how they do in an aquarium but they seem to be food for most fishes I keep.


Yeah Moon, you've already said people should not keep them yet you continue to doubt they could hurt anything.....on and on about other mussels being hard to keep and die backs to limited numbers...lack of this and so on....

Have you ever been to place they've taken over? Have you ever actually seen them smother out a lake bed?

You doubt they can live in various conditions yet they THRIVE in horrid conditions you would not expect other mussels to live. You think dumping them in a septic system will stop them? Ever flood? Don't think they'll clog pipes tubes??

zm_pipe.jpg

mussels_in_pipe.jpg

zebra-mussel-cart.gif

zebra_mussels.jpg

399px-Zebra_mussel_GLERL_3.jpg
 
teleost;2863099; said:
Yeah Moon, you've already said people should not keep them yet you continue to doubt they could hurt anything.....on and on about other mussels being hard to keep and die backs to limited numbers...lack of this and so on....

Have you ever been to place they've taken over? Have you ever actually seen them smother out a lake bed?

You doubt they can live in various conditions yet they THRIVE in horrid conditions you would not expect other mussels to live. You think dumping them in a septic system will stop them? Ever flood? Don't think they'll clog pipes tubes??

zm_pipe.jpg

mussels_in_pipe.jpg

zebra-mussel-cart.gif

zebra_mussels.jpg

399px-Zebra_mussel_GLERL_3.jpg

None of the pictures you show have anything to do with a closed system much less a closed septic tank. I do not doubt they can do damage if introduced into a water way where they currently do not exist. Why do you accuse me of this? I was talking exclusively about a closed small system, aquarium, I do not doubt their impact on any wild ecosystem, please stop trying to say I support releasing them into the wild, I do not. I see no problem with a thought exercise unless of course they can control my mind in some way. By the way in marine environments you see the same types of encrustations, zebra mussels are very much like marine encrusting organisms. In a marine environment these organism have many predators that feed on them but when you pump water trough a pipe where predators cannot get to them they will indeed fill a pipe up fast. The main reason zebra mussels are a problem is that they have no significant predators. In their natural habitat zebra mussels do have predators, they have managed to adapt to a place where their predators cannot follow them. It's not because they are some sort of magical mystery beast that have supernatural powers. So I'll say it straight up "I do not support keeping zebra mussels in aquariums." Is that ok?
 
None of the pictures you show have anything to do with a closed system much less a closed septic tank. I do not doubt they can do damage if introduced into a water way where they currently do not exist. Why do you accuse me of this? I was talking exclusively about a closed small system, aquarium, I do not doubt their impact on any wild ecosystem, please stop trying to say I support releasing them into the wild, I do not. I see no problem with a thought exercise unless of course they can control my mind in some way. By the way in marine environments you see the same types of encrustations, zebra mussels are very much like marine encrusting organisms. In a marine environment these organism have many predators that feed on them but when you pump water trough a pipe where predators cannot get to them they will indeed fill a pipe up fast. The main reason zebra mussels are a problem is that they have no significant predators. In their natural habitat zebra mussels do have predators, they have managed to adapt to a place where their predators cannot follow them. It's not because they are some sort of magical mystery beast that have supernatural powers. So I'll say it straight up "I do not support keeping zebra mussels in aquariums." Is that ok?

Moon, I've not accused you of anything (aside from perhaps ignorance of zeb's potential to survive inhospitable environments).

I never suggested you support release but I honestly don't see how anyone keeping them at home could not inadvertently put a drainage at risk.

FYI...even keeping them at home in a drainage where they exist is frightening. I have them in my drainage but they aren't in my home pipes, local pond (that seasonally connects to flowing waters) etc. So zeb's aren't everywhere in my drainage....yet.

You keep saying closed system.....do you mean outer space?? How do you keep the system closed? Do you live in a vacuum? Seriously...dried nets transport larvae so unless you put them in a steel tub and weld it closed...then send into outer space I doubt you're actually keeping your drainage safe.

I do find it odd that you doubt so much of what is said here and even want to argue that you think you could keep them in check. One mistake and it's over so why even discuss this?
 
I had to agree with Teleost. The zeebs are too easy to spread all over the place. The zeebs are in Mississippi River right now. The lake I used to go swimming are infested with sharp zeebs and its not cool to have your feet bleeding.
 
There is nothing like peering into a clear pristine lake with zebra mussels as far as the eye can see and watching carp swim among the forests of Eurasian water milfoil gently swaying to the rhythm of the water. So much beauty, so much diversity.
 
I never seen them in a tank before,but i've seen them cut the heck out of a fishing line before.
 
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